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Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 03 Apr 2018 05:16
by Draugor
Kas wrote:But they killed people in wars, which is not the same as random kills.
"War" on the entire mud
They killed randoms for just walking by aswell. Minor slights (or just standing in the same room) was seen as an excuse to lay siege to entire guilds etc, so yea, a rule kinda feels needed
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 03 Apr 2018 21:23
by Kas
So, this thread is about suggestions about maybe culling or regularing pvp/warfare, except it doesn't have any concise ones beyond abstract complaints and potential strawmen, borderlining whining as if potentially being afraid of possible repercussions due to something something someone did to something, or something + something else.
What about some actual suggestions that would add to the current rules of pvp and warfare?
Let me start: In order to conduct a war, some guild or person must Declare the state of war vs someone or some guild for it to actually be valid.
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 03 Apr 2018 21:55
by Greneth
Trying to put a band-aid on the bigger problem, instead of making more rules look at why people dont want to PvP in the first place. 10-15+ years ago we went at it left and right. Whats changed over the course of those years and what are some things that can be done to correct it so PvP isn't something that is dreaded but instead fun once more.
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 03 Apr 2018 22:00
by Kas
Greneth wrote:Trying to put a band-aid on the bigger problem, instead of making more rules look at why people dont want to PvP in the first place. 10-15+ years ago we went at it left and right. Whats changed over the course of those years and what are some things that can be done to correct it so PvP isn't something that is dreaded but instead fun once more.
What would you suggest to make pvp more fun?
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 03 Apr 2018 22:08
by Greneth
Kas wrote:Greneth wrote:Trying to put a band-aid on the bigger problem, instead of making more rules look at why people dont want to PvP in the first place. 10-15+ years ago we went at it left and right. Whats changed over the course of those years and what are some things that can be done to correct it so PvP isn't something that is dreaded but instead fun once more.
What would you suggest to make pvp more fun?
Personally I think either removing/drastically lowering the exp lost from a death on a PvP kill would go a long ways, leave the way it works if you die to a mob. You have to look at what people dread the most about death, which is the exp and recovery. But I also think death should be somewhat meaningful. I'd instead like to see a loss of skills compared to massive exp, the ratio or how many lost is debatable. Skills, gear and bragging rights to me is enough for a PvP death.
Right now depending on your brute it can take a person anywhere from a week if they put their nose to the grind all day long every day or up to a month+. That doesn't exactly scream fun for anyone and I think for the griefing types it only fuels them knowing that someone will be put at a severe disadvantage. This also provides another much needed money sink, able to kill a few birds with one stone.
Just my 2cc
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 04 Apr 2018 09:38
by Thalric
How about making a death penalty depend on how big enemy team average is vs your team average.
So if Hero X is being attacked by myth Y, Z and W, their average is perhaps 4-5 times higher than his, and then the normal XP loss is divided by that.
If myth X fight myth Y, the chances of getting away is a lot bigger, but losing will be to an opponent of relatively same size, to penalty is full.
If though, myth X is afk and looking at birds and champion Y comes by and kills him, he will have lost to a smaller enemy and his penalty is higher.
If 2 teams of same average is fighting the XP loss will be close to normal.
This will generally do that if you're killed by superior numbers, which is the fact in way most pkills, then you will get your loss lowered.
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 04 Apr 2018 13:17
by Cherek
We've had this discussion more times than an elf with supreme INT can count.
From what I can remember of past discussions everyone have their own idea on how to change PVP. Meanwhile upstairs, there really has been a lack of available wizards who could potentially change it. I've always wanted to, but I don't have the authority nor the knowledge to do it. The same goes for the majority of wizards. Lately, as you know there has been more activity in the wizard world, just like in the game as a whole, so maybe there is a chance something could change. If someone can decide _how_ to change it. However, it also feels like a lot of players do not want to be part of PVP at all, and just want to mind their own business, and maybe are quite happy with PVP as it is. That is, not a very big part of the game?
I think of you players (wizards included) _truly_ want PVP to change, I would recommend creating some sort of group (a thread here, or group on discord maybe?) for it, come up with a really good idea, and send it in to the admin, signed with a large number of player names. Posting random ideas here makes a fun discussion (again) but for an actual change to happen, a much more serious idea has to be presented, and with a lot of backing. That would also a relatively united playerbase asking for a change. Who wants to take charge?
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 04 Apr 2018 23:38
by Habiki
Remember this 20 page thread on death penalty?
https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... f=2&t=2557
We did test removing death penalty totally. It didn't amount to very much difference.
Also, could see this pvp in genesis thread:
https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... f=2&t=3448
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 05 Apr 2018 02:57
by Greneth
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Code:
Hello all,
I just thought I'd share a bit of good news with everyone. 2017 is turning out
to be an amazingly nifty "new normal" for player interest and activity. For
comparison, lets look at the daily APH from five years ago for the first 35
days of that year:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20120101 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120102 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120103 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120104 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120105 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120106 XXXXXXXX (8)
20120107 XXXXXXXX (8)
20120108 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120109 XXXXXXX (7)
20120110 XXXXXXXX (8)
20120111 XXXXXXX (7)
20120112 XXXXXXX (7)
20120113 XXXXXX (6)
20120114 XXXXXX (6)
20120115 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120116 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120117 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120118 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120119 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120120 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120121 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120122 XXXXXXX (7)
20120123 XXXXXXXX (8)
20120124 XXXXXXXX (8)
20120125 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120126 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120127 XXXXXXXX (8)
20120128 XXXXXXXXX (9)
20120129 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120130 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120131 XXXXXXXXXXX (11)
20120201 XXXXXXXXXXX (11)
20120202 XXXXXXXXXXX (11)
20120203 XXXXXXXXXX (10)
20120204 XXXXXXXXX (9)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Displayed was the daily average of player activity on all days beginning on
20120101 and ending on 20120204.
Average players per hour in given parameters = 8.885
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2013 if I remember wasn't much different, that average might have barely doubled. If that.
Code: Select all
Code:
There are 101 players in the game.
Algarath* Celrak Irk Quentariel* Tommo+
Alplaka Celse Jagoda Raelle Watchereye
Alteor Daimen* Javelin Ramirez* Wolverine+
Andur Danielyoo Jezi Ratheus Xion*
Anjali Decimia Kleyth Ria Zar
Arioch Dorrien Klover* Riedran Zlobitel*
Aruman Draugor+ Logg Rowland* Zugzug
Ashlinn Dreamon Lokeboi* Sa* -wizards-
Athenabeth* Eledor Malaerys Sandrick* Carnak*
Barph Faery Mallor Skycho* Cherek
Bashere Fairlight Manowar+ Snedecor*+ Cotillion
Belegorn Faygoat Minki* Sprie Finwe
Bella Ghorphys* Montagu*+ Starla*+ Gorboth
Bodvar Graggen Mumon Stryder Malus
Brutalitops* Grimbash* Myst Stryker* Nerull*
Calyphei Groenk*+ Nilats Talon Plarry
Carlof Grott Pacal Targun* Shanoga
Cash Gweyn Pasha+ Thaun Varian+
Cassius Hannabeth* Plukragar Thebossme
Cat Hisssss Pranjali+ Thrace*
Celephias Idnahg Prokop Tintaglia
Things change when it's not just a few players running about on bots, you can't really call it a test when the game was at its lowest years.
Re: Suggestion of additional rules to Player Killing
Posted: 05 Apr 2018 13:24
by Cherek
Regarding the test, I know several players who simply waited with killing their enemies until the test was over, so they would not "waste" kill when it would not hurt. Since everyone knew death was coming back, it's hard to draw conclusions from the test. And like Greneth mentioned, the playerbase was low, and no big conflicts going on. I don't think players would randomly starting fighting more if we changed the penalty, but _when_ war breaks out it would probably be a more fun experience. I like the skill-loss idea, as it gives you something to do with money as well.