More Brainstorming Dis

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Poultry
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More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Poultry » 17 Apr 2018 15:43

I realize the topic is closed. I also realized I can circumvent that by starting a new topic. ;P

I had an epiphany while grinding in Kabal. As a magic user, I have to stop every few rooms because I run out of mana. It's quite annoying. Mele players, however, never have to stop. If they choose something easy enough, and procure a non-dulling weapon, they can literally grind forever. Some players have even told me that before the rule changes (Thanks Irk!) they would set a script to run and spend the entire night killing. I can barely do all 3 rooms at the north gates of Kabal before I have to take a break.

So here's my idea: Guild specials--smash, chop, kattack, charge, etc--should cause fatigue. Over time, this fatigue could add up and force the player to stop and rest. For example, if you tried to race through an area on a script killing everything in sight, eventually you'd be too tired for to keep up with your script.

It could be your discipline, or perhaps your discipline relative to con? or discipline relative to combat stats?, that determined how quickly you'd recover and be able to continue killing. It only makes sense, after all, that if casting spells is hard mental work, whacking things with weapons is hard physical work.

--Poultry

Berwyn
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Berwyn » 17 Apr 2018 16:22

Perhaps you could introduce fear test for evil characters. For instance a pack of dwarves would stand a chance against the Witchking and not run away. In short give evils aura of fear and brave-ones a chance to stand their ground depending on dis and number of people involved.
What say thee?

b.

Zugzug
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Zugzug » 17 Apr 2018 16:52

Poultry wrote:I realize the topic is closed. I also realized I can circumvent that by starting a new topic. ;P

I had an epiphany while grinding in Kabal. As a magic user, I have to stop every few rooms because I run out of mana. It's quite annoying. Mele players, however, never have to stop. If they choose something easy enough, and procure a non-dulling weapon, they can literally grind forever. Some players have even told me that before the rule changes (Thanks Irk!) they would set a script to run and spend the entire night killing. I can barely do all 3 rooms at the north gates of Kabal before I have to take a break.

So here's my idea: Guild specials--smash, chop, kattack, charge, etc--should cause fatigue. Over time, this fatigue could add up and force the player to stop and rest. For example, if you tried to race through an area on a script killing everything in sight, eventually you'd be too tired for to keep up with your script.

It could be your discipline, or perhaps your discipline relative to con? or discipline relative to combat stats?, that determined how quickly you'd recover and be able to continue killing. It only makes sense, after all, that if casting spells is hard mental work, whacking things with weapons is hard physical work.

--Poultry
I had an epiphany while fighting the orc captain in Emerald. As a fighter, and one of medium myth size, it takes me over 6-7 minutes to slowly kill him, while using top armours and weapons available to me. It's quite annoying. Mage and cleric and other mage-type players, however, kill him in about 40-50 seconds. Some players told me that before fighters started getting big, they (magic users) had almost exclusive ability to kill him and use his top of the top armours/weapons.

So here's my idea: Magic spells should fail every time that a mage gets hit (scratched, etc) in combat, and taking several hits over a rather short amount of time should cause mage to have such pain, that they would be unable to cast new spells for a while. For example, a puny elf getting on the ledge with a humongous orc would need to evade all the hits in order to wave her hands around enough to kill the mighty orc.

It could be your discipline, or perhaps your discipline relative to wisdom? Or discipline relative to mentals, that determined how soon you would be able to cast the ultra-powerful magic spells again to continue killing. It only makes sense, after all, that if someone who has put in hundreds of days into progressing and growing should be as good as killing as a mage newbie.

--Zugzug (not Poultry)

Draugor
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Draugor » 17 Apr 2018 17:01

Used to be actually that hits could destroy spellcasting, mebbe make discipline into a stat that determines wether or not you have the mentality to push through an attack and still focus :P The nastier the hit the harder to keep casting.

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Alisa
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Alisa » 17 Apr 2018 17:42

This made me laugh a bit, excellent reply Zugzug.

@poultry Specials do cause fatigue, focusing con does remove this as a problem. Most melee focus con :-) Well, most melee are goblins, they kinda have an autofocus on con.


Warrior=more continuous grind.
Mage=more burst.

And we all use whatever we can to get around the limitations :-)

Raelle
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Raelle » 17 Apr 2018 17:53

Poultry wrote:So here's my idea: Guild specials--smash, chop, kattack, charge, etc--should cause fatigue. Over time, this fatigue could add up and force the player to stop and rest. For example, if you tried to race through an area on a script killing everything in sight, eventually you'd be too tired for to keep up with your script.
this already happens. Not to me of course (flex), but to others, especially when speedy / with a heavy weapon. no, we're not stopping combat so people can rest, but I see my teammates eating chicory.

Strength is the stat that's tied to this, which is logical.


***edit, I assume it's strength? but maybe it's con

sylphan
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by sylphan » 17 Apr 2018 17:59

Zugzug wrote:Magic spells should fail every time that a mage gets hit (scratched, etc) in combat
Have you ever played a magic-user? Spell failure rate definitely seems to go up when I'm getting hit. And yeah, magic attacks can do a lot of damage. Don't you think they ought to? If not, why not? In addition to scoring big hits, we also get to worry about mana and potions and spell components, all of which takes time and thought to manage well. And hunting alone poses really interesting challenges for a mage - challenges fighters get not to worry about. Do you think those of us who sign on for those challenges ought to be rewarded with attacks no more powerful than melee players get? If so, why?

If you want the kind of damage a skilled mage can deliver, I have an idea for you: team with a mage.

Johnny
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Johnny » 17 Apr 2018 18:22

sylphan wrote: If you want the kind of damage a skilled mage can deliver, I have an idea for you: team with a mage.
I do not believe you've seen Zugzug run around the Donut then.
Raelle wrote: ***edit, I assume it's strength? but maybe it's con
Strength is a contributing factor but fatigue pool is primarily based off of your constitution. See Alisa's post.
Alisa wrote:@poultry Specials do cause fatigue, focusing con does remove this as a problem. Most melee focus con :-) Well, most melee are goblins, they kinda have an autofocus on con...

...And we all use whatever we can to get around the limitations :-)
Zugzug wrote: I had an epiphany while fighting the orc captain in Emerald. As a fighter, and one of medium myth size, it takes me over 6-7 minutes to slowly kill him, while using top armours and weapons available to me. It's quite annoying. Mage and cleric and other mage-type players, however, kill him in about 40-50 seconds. Some players told me that before fighters started getting big, they (magic users) had almost exclusive ability to kill him and use his top of the top armours/weapons.
Man, 6-7 minutes is fast! 40-50 is Usain Bolt fast!





What if, discipline not only prevents armours/weapons from dulling/breaking, it could also increase your quickness level EVER so slightly or reduce the slow effect of items/abilities when discipline is high?
Last edited by Johnny on 17 Apr 2018 21:09, edited 1 time in total.

Kvator
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Kvator » 17 Apr 2018 18:23

Alisa wrote: And we all use whatever we can to get around the limitations :-)
Who's we?

Zugzug
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Re: More Brainstorming Dis

Post by Zugzug » 17 Apr 2018 18:34

sylphan wrote: Have you ever played a magic-user?
Yes, back in 1993 I played a Calian/Minstrel (magic!) elf, so I definitely know what I'm talking about.
sylphan wrote: And yeah, magic attacks can do a lot of damage. Don't you think they ought to? If not, why not?
Learning a spell once and then using it forever would be like a fighter getting her hands on a superb weapon once and then using it forever (past armageddons, game crashes, etc, until she left the guild). I think it would be nice if mages had to get all their spells anew every armageddon and then visit some magic school-type-thing every half an hour of play to "sharpen and refresh" their knowledge of the spell they have used much. Perhaps, there could be some "semi-permanent" spells, that would last an arma, or two, but to get those, you'd have to battle an ancient krynn dragon 30-40 times to get lucky and get it.
sylphan wrote: Do you think those of us who sign on for those challenges ought to be rewarded with attacks no more powerful than melee players get? If so, why?
Perhaps make the "permanent" spells (those that you can learn and remember forever without need to re-hunt it) as powerful as a melee attack with a readily-available weapon (maybe like a mistform weapons from sparkle church? :) For more "oomph" go kill an npc like Verminaard, or ancient dragons, or Mergula a couple dozen times and enjoy the more powerful spells (for a while, until the parchment they are written on "breaks") :)
sylphan wrote: If you want the kind of damage a skilled mage can deliver, I have an idea for you: team with a mage.
And if you want the kind of grind a skilled fighter can deliver, I have an idea for you too: team with a fighter who knows how to grind :)

You have to pardon me, but you do see that my initial answer here was light satire, right? :)

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