Problems if we get too many newbies

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Drazson
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Drazson » 05 Sep 2018 21:23

Cherek wrote:How do you get rid of the soulbound falchion?
Why can't you rack it in your guild? If your alt takes it from there he/she still can't use it cause it's marked not to be usable from seconds, while your guildmates can still use it.
Cherek wrote:I'd like to be able to give my old stuff to a friend / guildmate I think. But perhaps that is an acceptable drawback of saving stuff on you.
Woah, giving stuff to guildmates and friends shouldn't be cut, should they?! :O

Wyork
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Wyork » 06 Sep 2018 00:20

Why not keep it simple?
  • - keep glowing system
    - on player logout: wielded & worn equip stays with the player, glowing items stay glowing
    - at armageddon: racked items & player held items get the usual armageddon treatment
No need to tinker with a ton of systems: durability, guild specials, new max. lifetime rules for imbuements and so on ...

Newbies will still have to get used to glowing system & Armageddon consequences though.

It would be a compromise between our old ways and the modern expectations.

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Dhez
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Dhez » 06 Sep 2018 10:10

Wyork wrote:Why not keep it simple?
  • - keep glowing system
    - on player logout: wielded & worn equip stays with the player, glowing items stay glowing
    - at armageddon: racked items & player held items get the usual armageddon treatment
No need to tinker with a ton of systems: durability, guild specials, new max. lifetime rules for imbuements and so on ...

Newbies will still have to get used to glowing system & Armageddon consequences though.

It would be a compromise between our old ways and the modern expectations.
I think this would be a nice compromise. I'm not sure if the game's design would support lasting equipment. Too many changes would be required, and eventually the complaints would come that the system stagnates and you can't "improve" your gear/ilvl as in MMOs.
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Okotok
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Okotok » 08 Sep 2018 20:32

When and how will all the players be notified if there will be any changes to the glowing system?

I am very excited for any new features that come from this fascinating discussion.

Draugor
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Draugor » 08 Sep 2018 20:44

Okotok wrote:When and how will all the players be notified if there will be any changes to the glowing system?

I am very excited for any new features that come from this fascinating discussion.

They are usually very quick with making commonboard notes since thats announced to you once you log on.

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gorboth
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by gorboth » 19 Sep 2018 22:23

We have tried to anticipate most issues we can address at this time. Additional changes that have been made:
  • Player login limit increased to 2,048 at one time.
  • Global redesign of recovery so that nearly all items save over logouts.
  • Revision of Tutorial Chapter 24 - 'Logging Out and Linkdeath'
  • Syntax fix: using "the" no longer creates command parsing failure. <get the lamp> will now work, and "the" should work with all other commands as well.
... (thanks to Cotillion, as usual, for expert code-work)

I also had a nice roundtable discussion today with a number of players. We talked about ways to help the ntell line be useful, not too spammy, and welcoming. Many thanks to all of you who can be on-hand to be good embassadors for Genesis this weekend.

Tomorrow, the article is slated for publication in the UK, and all regions that receive PC Gamer UK. Fingers crossed!

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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Zhar
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Zhar » 05 Sep 2019 14:56

sylphan wrote:
05 Sep 2018 19:38
Another option would be for each player to have a personal locker wherever they <home> in which they can put a limited number of items (two? three?) of any type. Maybe the number could increase based on ... factors (Qxp? Mortal size? Something more imaginative?) And outside of this, everything else in the game stays exactly the same. This seems to me far simpler than the other changes being proposed, and would involve minimal repercussions. I'm sure I'm missing the reason there has to be some onerous cost, in which case this proposal will be summarily dismissed.
I really like this idea. Similar to how old mercs worked.

Personally I would do it this way:

Non-magical items never save (exception being packs, gems and herbs which should always save).
Magical items always save once (survive 1 Armageddon, never more).
Items worn on person never save (except packs, gems and herbs as mentioned above, if you quit or go linkdead for too long, you drop them or they are lost to the void).
All guild racks should now also have the "personal rack", where you can store up to 10 items.
All magical items in racks are automatically saved and stored through single Armageddon.

Benefits of such system:

- game is being auto-cleaned up, reducing clutter
- racklooting is no longer viable (at least reduced in scope, personally I would also introduce some form of rack point system everywhere)
- people will be able to use the racks in free to join guilds (finally)
- people will stop hoarding valuable items on their person, allowing others to use them
- possibly more interpersonal relations will be introduced as people will need to visit the racks more often, increasing the chance of meeting others

What do you think?
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Thalric
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Thalric » 05 Sep 2019 16:19

I thought the whole idea was to make it so that newbies didn't lose their stuff, thus not making the game unplayable for them, as they are used to having just that.
If that is a goal all non-magical stuff on a person should save.

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Cherek
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Cherek » 06 Sep 2019 02:54

Thalric: Having non-magical stuff always save (but not magical) was one of the more popular ideas before the EQ-saving change was made, and was definitely one of the options that was seriously considered since that would have helped newbies, but not changed the game much for the rest of the players.

Zhar: Some sort of locker / personal rack system was also one of the ideas considered before the EQ-saving change, but it also fell short in favor of the everything-saves solution. It's still a viable idea of course, but I think the current system has a lot of benefits that would be lost if we went back to stuff not saving again.

For example:

- We would get a system that again is rather confusing for a new player. What saves? What does not save? Why did I lose my stuff when I quit? Etc.

- Since non-magical items would not survive Armageddon at all in your suggestion, that's another blow for newbies who naturally rely more on non-magical items in general.

- We would also go back to the system where you would risk LD'ing out with EQ, which was not the most fun way to lose EQ. I think we've all been frustrated, or even devastated, when we've made that mistake (or someone in our guild did). Nah, I don't think I would like to return to that, it's nice to not have that worry :)

- Finally, we would return to a system where you need to gear up before each playing session, and return home each time you are done. Not having to do that anymore is a very good change I think, since it gives you an encouragement to play even if you only have a little time, which the old system did not really encourage.

Yes, the EQ situation right now is not perfect, and it definitely needs tweaking, but I do not think the solution is to go back to more or less the old ways (+ personal racks), since that reintrocudes many of the drawbacks with the old systems. I think it's better to work on making sure all EQ decays and/or break, which hopefully will make the world a bit more decluttered, and I absolutely agree that is a problem.

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Zhar
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Re: Problems if we get too many newbies

Post by Zhar » 06 Sep 2019 17:59

Decluttering is one problem. Another problem is the quality of racks in free to join guilds.

I know it's your typical drawback of such guilds as opposed to those requiring an application process, but there should definitely be some way of reducing it. I bet that plenty of people (both newbies and veterans) get disheartened when their racks get looted all the time. Even if you're big enough to go grab some gear and fill the racks a bit it doesn't matter since they'll be cleaned up the next day and you have to start all over again. Been there, done that, not recommended.

I am a strong believer that alleviating this problem will greatly increase player retention.

And another thing that came to my mind recently in regards to newbies are racial guilds and clubs that have some serious joining issues. There are always people asking for joining Nisse Ohtar for example. And I think that having council and entire application process to the Dunedain racial guild is obsolete (I like how Travellers guild handled that by introducing a simple quest for joininig), especially seeing how big part of Genesis appeal and advertisement is Middlearth, making people wait weeks to join a racial guild seems pretty absurd.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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