If the game were nerfed ...

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If a balance bug-fix nerfed all specials, spells, and heal effects to 37% of current power levels:

Good move - I'd keep playing, even though I'd be weaker
35
43%
Not sure - I'd see what it was like, might stay, might not.
19
23%
Hate it - I don't want to be weaker! I would quit.
28
34%
 
Total votes: 82

sylphan
Great Adventurer
Posts: 169
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by sylphan » 02 Oct 2018 13:25

Thalric wrote:I think that those most likely to leave are the huge players, and if they do, there are less of them to catch wup to for the rest.
Why do you think huge players would be inclined to leave? The proposed change would virtually guarantee their size advantage into perpetuity. Maybe you see an implication I'm missing?

Rangar
Beginner
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Joined: 15 Dec 2012 23:07
Location: Poland

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Rangar » 02 Oct 2018 14:04

I see two reasons: first, they have grown huge because they find pleasure in growing - if their progress stops dead in its tracks, they lose interest. Second, if they die, their previous size will be irrecoverable, which is frustrating and may be a deal-breaker for some of the huge myths.

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Arman
Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Arman » 02 Oct 2018 14:36

Mim wrote: I agree, if specials were lowered 37% it would be a PAIN. Until you got used to it.
Just to be really clear, we aren't proposing lowering specials by 37%. We are lowering them TO 37% of what they currently are. That is what the fix would do. The damage output you would have normally got out of one special attack, offensive spell, or heal, would now require around three of those specials to match.

What that means is that a knights or Dragonarmies special attack would be somewhere between the current Templar special attack and the Blademasters battack effectiveness. Swarm slightly worse than the Blademasters special attack.

That is the quantum of the change you are voting on.

Greneth
Great Adventurer
Posts: 169
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 19:55

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Greneth » 02 Oct 2018 14:41

Long as the end result means the game will be harder again and you don't see a bunch of scripters soloing endgame content I'm all for it.

Poultry
Apprentice
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Joined: 10 Feb 2018 21:33

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Poultry » 02 Oct 2018 15:31

Another point to consider, at least for casters, is that this bug affects all spells? Did I read that right? We get very low weapon skills. So if our spells become 1/3 as powerful, we will lose almost all our offense. At least a mele guild can rely on having excellent weapons to make up for some of the loss. It's hard enough to play a caster. A caster with 1/3 the offense? Ugh.

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Alisa
Rising Hero
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014 23:10

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Alisa » 02 Oct 2018 15:32

I worry that caster will find that its more efficient to use a weapon imbue, and a weapon than their spells.
Causing another wild change where some 75% of genesis changes guild cause power.
I am not sure why i worry, because... Its a free game. People can do that if they want :-)

Empirical tests would be very cool. Zugzug really have a great point there. I can't speed up a room to 100% speed, but i can open 100 windows with 100 characters and set up triggers to run combat simulations.

Especially in PVP, where less damage means less use of blocking effects.... Blocking effects would be reduced too, i assume, as they are part of caid?

Will i have fun when i'm forced to grind gont/faerun instead of mithas/GK... Not sure. It will certainly feel as a downgrade first.
If you think i'm too silent, just start a discussion with me. Or talk to me, i'll reply.

Not sure why people are happy about others not being able to do something. I don't think people solo-script to annoy anyone. Its more a choice, with various reasons to not want company.
The change will not cause these choices to go away, it will just change where people choose to script.

It will not cause more RP-talk-sessions either. People wont stop grinding and suddenly talk more. They would change their grindlocation, grindtype or stop playing. If they wanted to stand around and talk, they would be doing it now.
For those arguing nerf because they like more rp/talk, i'd be inclined to ask: "how would you react, if i suggested nerfing say/emotes to once pr minute?" :-)
Do what you enjoy, and please let others do what they enjoy.

There is a chance that the outcome will be that those scripters many hate, just will team more with each other, and continue their silent run through the realms.

sylphan
Great Adventurer
Posts: 169
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by sylphan » 02 Oct 2018 15:32

Selfishly speaking, wouldn't this change really hurt spell-casters who do zero or negligible damage from non-special attacks? Saimon and, oh Poultry just now, and maybe someone else mentioned this - do wizards have a plan for it? I'm ok with the change if it makes balance among guilds more achievable, but only if there are compensating changes so that new imbalances are not introduced.

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Drazson
Expert
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Drazson » 02 Oct 2018 16:32

Suppose melees and casters are balanced and all deal 100 damage per second.
Casters deal 90% of that via spells, thus 90 special damage.
Melees deal 60% of that via specials, thus 60 special damage.

Let's apply the 270% bug on that balanced state:
You take those special damage numbers and add 170% efficiency, up to a total of 270%.
Thus, you make casters deal an extra of 90*170%=153 damage, plus the 100 they already dealt for a total of 253.
Also, you make melees deal an extra of 60*170%=102 damage, plus the 100 they already dealt for a total of 202.

Retracting the 270% bug would bring things back to normal (100 damage per second), as per the balance document.
Instead, you are asking to keep being overtuned, thinking going back to normal is somehow unfair.

P.S. Please don't argue "The document is fine and all but the power levels will be obviously unbalanced if the nerf happens between casters and melees". What every guilds need to adhere to is the same balancing standard in order to be able to make sense of it all. If the wizards are misjudging whether the utility given to a guild to compensate for their lack of damage is enough, that's something to be considered, sure. However, if a caster has an invisibility spell that needs to be balanced out with a lack of offensive or defensive power and you don't use that spell, of course you won't feel balanced when compared with more damaging but less utilitarian characters. It's not the wizards' misjudgement in that case, it's something you just declined to take into account regarding your playstyle and the tools you have.

Nerull
Wizard
Posts: 66
Joined: 05 Jul 2014 23:24

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Nerull » 02 Oct 2018 16:49

A flat nerf back to .37% will potentially break a few guilds that might be hurled into a totally unplayable state.

So it's important that we evaluate every step of the process and maybe prepare some post-hoc actions should stuff emerge from the potential pitfall.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 555
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: If the game were nerfed ...

Post by Kvator » 02 Oct 2018 16:56

Arman wrote:
Mim wrote: I agree, if specials were lowered 37% it would be a PAIN. Until you got used to it.
Just to be really clear, we aren't proposing lowering specials by 37%. We are lowering them TO 37% of what they currently are. That is what the fix would do. The damage output you would have normally got out of one special attack, offensive spell, or heal, would now require around three of those specials to match.

What that means is that a knights or Dragonarmies special attack would be somewhere between the current Templar special attack and the Blademasters battack effectiveness. Swarm slightly worse than the Blademasters special attack.

That is the quantum of the change you are voting on.
Then maybe this original 100% was not counted properly in the first place (since no wizard noticed such a huge bug for so long makes that pretty probable)?

It's obvious that dmg is king atm (BDA, Calia, casters), but I really doubt it's that much (almost 3 times) better.

BTW - I am really curious how ogres went through balancing process :)

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