Perma-saving items

[Raelle]

As for ironstones, I definitely agree, all ironstone imbued items have to be removed. Whatever suggestion we end up doing, I think an announced Armageddon where _nothing_ saves is the way to go. Just to clean up the game and start fresh. I really do think most players will understand, as they have enjoyed this "abnormally good" state of the world for a longer time than expected anyway.

They are closely linked, but please don't conflate the ironstone problem with the forever-saving problem.
If admin doesn't like ironstones, break them. remove them from the game FULLY and not in this lazy way where they just don't drop anymore. Why, in one fell swoop, destroy racks upon racks of gear because 9 people are running around with intense ironstoned items? (Disproportionately penalizing melee fighters as compared to casters, as Kvator pointed out - or would this greedy Arma take all herbs and potions too?)

If a lazy solution is wanted, simply go back to how things were (...and give us our ironstones back, especially if non-dull/break qualities are removed from weapons). Casual players can go back to relying on their guild racks, and gear-hunters can achieve something other than hoarding.

Or .... do what Arman says. but also adjust the drop rates accordingly.

[Yeren]

Hmm. Quite a discussion
Finally.

Yes the combat-use timer would be good, as it would not penalize casual players. However I agree that pure combat decay will be abused. Make all items last equal time? Like 4 armas?

Purging all items from the game because a few guys have working ironstones also sucks. Perhaps something less drastic could be applied.

[Yeren]

OR (I got this crazy idea right now)

Make all items forever non dull like in most of current games.

BUT apply a fairly high chance it breaks while equipped. Like 10% for example, hehe

[Johnny]

Whatever suggestion we end up doing, I think an announced Armageddon where _nothing_ saves is the way to go. Just to clean up the game and start fresh. I really do think most players will understand, as they have enjoyed this "abnormally good" state of the world for a longer time than expected anyway.

How about non-dulling/unbreakable equipment lasts 1 arma like ogre stuff AND quarterly clean ups? 4 times a year everything gets wiped?

[Tulasi]

Regardless of what solution comes; Arman's "goodbye to nondulling" or any other, the real issue of problems are:

People have artifacts because:
- They do not take damage because code say they should not be damaged
- They do not take damage because they are never worn when owner gets hit by mobs.
- They do not take damage because they have an intense ironstone imbue.
- They do not take damage because they aren't considered weapon or armour (wands, orbs etc)


Wands and orbs should be "worn down", and it would be nice if we could imbue them, to match our melee counterparts.
Shesara's idea about damage being spread on items throughout the teams so no item is guarranteed to avoid getting damaged. Perhaps even add "wear and tear", X per cent chance per Y time in combat for Z loss in "durability" on any item, weapon, armour, wand or orb.
Ironstone code change - intense ironstone no longer makes weapon/armour unbreakable, just slows the process down. All unbreakabe items gets breakability and dullability.

And these changes could be done relatively quickly, I'd love to see such change as a "Yule Tide Gift"!

Yes, it will be shit to have a now "permanent" item suddenly turn less than permanent. In most cases, these items have been on mortal hands almost since permasave was introduced. I had a ring, which I used while grinding, even when solo, for over 2 months, a ring I had imbued. I've had 2 belts with high speed imbue on, for 2+ months each since the introduction. Sure, it takes a LONG time (or a wad of money) to get such imbues, but if 2 months isn't enough of a reward, then don't.

Tulasi

[Val]

any nerf to current eq system will indirectly buff magic-users

When the ever-lasting eq system was implemented, as a side effect of ever-lasting no dull weapons everyone except of casters (and monks) was buffed.

Now, when fixing this side-effect is considered, some people noticed that this fix would "indirectly buff magic-users". Hard to not agree! Great logic

[Kvator]

any nerf to current eq system will indirectly buff magic-users

When the ever-lasting eq system was implemented, as a side effect of ever-lasting no dull weapons everyone except of casters (and monks) was buffed.

Now, when fixing this side-effect is considered, some people noticed that this fix would "indirectly buff magic-users". Hard to not agree! Great logic

When mages were implemented we were told that rogues will be their counter xD (with this Warrior > Rogue > Mage > Warrior thing)

So this reasoning was the foundation of their power. Since nothing was done about rogues (mages are stronger than warriors and rogue is totally useless class countered by everything) we can conclude that current power of mages is unjustified

Why buffing them even more (by nerfing others)?

[Cherek]

Raelle/Yeren: I didn't mean we need to purge all items in the game just to get rid of items imbued with ironstones. However, I do think a purge would be good in general, since it would make it much easier to figure out if the new system actually works, without a huge leftover that will probably be around for a long time. But, it all depends on which solution we end up with. If we make things last one or two Armageddons, the piles of super-EQ will be wiped out soon enough anyway. But if we were to go with for example a combat-decay system then I think it would be good to reset things first. Otherwise many guilds and players will start with a large supply of awesome EQ, and it will most likely take a long time until we reach some sort of "baseline" and can really get a feel for if the new system is working or not. I think it's much better to start from zero if we introduce a new system. That's just how I personally feel, though.

In general, whatever change is made, I think players should try not to see it as a nerf, but rather as going back to something more realistic, and that this year has been a unique "gift" that has been fun (for some at least). So, don't be sad for any loss, be happy you got to experience it for so long instead!

[Greneth]

The new players were the biggest complainers of the old system. The reviews we got were pretty bad. Once the change was made I saw a lot of new players come in, even ones who originally loved the game but the no gear saving was a deal breaker come back.

I personally hated the old system. Promoted nothing but hoarding from people who didnt even need the items. And for those who dont have hours and hours to spend it was even more a pain.

I like the saving system but it needs a decay feature of some sort. If you're in combat, stuff decays. Remove nondulling/nonbreaking eq and its solved. Everything needs to eventually be gotten again, Calians/Wizards/Leeches dont get to keep stuff forever since they never get hit. Yet if you have an imbue on something it can last more than one or two armas.

[Amberlee]

Personally I think the old system was an imperfect but still the best solution, and any system that has come after even the one that will be the successor of this one will be worse than it.

The answer is quite simple.
Revert to old one over the course of 1 arma with a fair warning to all.
If you want some items to save give the option to buy safes where you can guarantee saving of 2-3 non imbued items.
This can even be introduced as a "special rack" in guildhalls where members can put 2-3 items.
Have imbued items guarantee saving over 1 arma so that perhaps getting intense imbuements can be worth it.
Re-introduce ironstones.. A tremendous resource that costs a lot to maintain.. aka huge money sink.

Basically this would take care of most problems.
- Newbies could save specific desired equipment.
- Imbuements have more meaning again.
- Unbreakable armours become a huge but expensive resource and undulling weapons have a limited life span.
- Equipment hunting becomes a thing again, cause right now it's a fucking pain in the ass to find anything due to the over filled racks of everyone.
- You don't have to spend a fuckton of time designing a new and vastly inferior system.