Perma-saving items

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sylphan
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Joined: 12 Nov 2017 19:56

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by sylphan » 23 Nov 2019 16:19

Cool. I appreciate the immortals keeping us apprised of these developments.

Syrk
Rising Hero
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Syrk » 23 Nov 2019 17:15

Arman wrote:
23 Nov 2019 10:29
The one we decided on doing is having all equipment used in the course of combat to have an 'end-life', based on time used in combat.

This will mean that items that traditionally haven't decayed through use - such as armours for non-tanks, non-dull weapons, or imbued wearables - will have a finite lifespan.
Your idea will only make fighting imbues value drop (damage, accuracy etc.) and others that can be used outside combat rise (heal, spellcraft, hide and sneak).
So only values of some imbues will change. The issue will not be solved. Just powdered over.

kelrhys
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by kelrhys » 23 Nov 2019 17:37

This solution, including the equipment purge, seems as fair as possible for all. My initial reaction was horror, then I thought about it a bit more, and slowly came to this conclusion! It will definitely take some getting used to, in particular I will be interested to see how it affects equipment hunting.

As for spellcraft imbues - they would normally be used in combat so I am not sure if I am missing a use case you are thinking of Syrk? I have certainly observed many using healing imbues in combat as well but it is true they will still be useful outside of combat, but I do not believe that causes a major imbalance?

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Cherek
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 23 Nov 2019 17:48

Syrk wrote:
23 Nov 2019 17:15
Arman wrote:
23 Nov 2019 10:29
The one we decided on doing is having all equipment used in the course of combat to have an 'end-life', based on time used in combat.

This will mean that items that traditionally haven't decayed through use - such as armours for non-tanks, non-dull weapons, or imbued wearables - will have a finite lifespan.
Your idea will only make fighting imbues value drop (damage, accuracy etc.) and others that can be used outside combat rise (heal, spellcraft, hide and sneak).
So only values of some imbues will change. The issue will not be solved. Just powdered over.
You do have a point Syrk. And that's why we have this thread, so more minds can think about potential problems! Perhaps a longer max-life based on RL time is needed combined with a shorter max-life in combat. Yes, out of combat stuff will be more useful, which might be a okay as long as they don't last forever.

Syrk
Rising Hero
Posts: 362
Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Syrk » 23 Nov 2019 20:21

kelrhys wrote:
23 Nov 2019 17:37
but I do not believe that causes a major imbalance?
An example.
A magic user will possess a few intense heal and spellcraft imbues, which he will not use during combat but will auto-equip in breaks between combats.
Thus his rest time between engagements will be greatly reduced thanks to health and mana infusion provided by the items. And those items will last - it seems they will last much longer than other (figthing) imbued items.

Another player will use an intense magic damage on his weapon. But the weapon will degrade and break in some time.

The magic user will sell/trade/convert other stones to balm and lode stones which will be the new kings.
At first players will try to trade the stones at 1:1 ratio but very soon the ratio will change.

kelrhys
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by kelrhys » 23 Nov 2019 21:00

That sounds very sensible, Cherek. There does seem to need to be a way to make sure nothing lasts forever, as that is unnatural, and decay makes more sense than an arbitrary periodic purge. It also limits the impact of any items that have somehow avoided the combat decay system, in a non-abrupt way that does not create a bewildering rush by the entire population of the realms for the same targets. That always bothered me about the old system.

Not to add complication, but if the non-combat decay lengths were all the same they could end up being synchronized from the time right after this system is implemented and still have an abrupt cliff where everything disappears at the same time, so some degree of differentiation/randomness might be required to prevent that.

Anfalas
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Anfalas » 23 Nov 2019 21:38

All people can use balmstones out of combat, not just casters.

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Cherek
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 23 Nov 2019 21:54

Yes I understand how balmstones and other non-combat imbuements could become more valuable, absolutely. But, like Anfalas said, those are not exclusive to casters, and fighters can also take breaks and heal up with their balmstone / spellcraft-imbued items if they want to. How does this suggested change become extra beneficial to casters?

Syrk
Rising Hero
Posts: 362
Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Syrk » 23 Nov 2019 22:29

The change makes some imbued items to degrade but others stay forever (or till the next purge, whenver it may be).
Who said anything about casters?

You say that its wrong for some items to be undulling or unbreakable but it is fine for some imbues to last forver?

Saimon
Wanderer
Posts: 63
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 23:08

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Saimon » 23 Nov 2019 22:53

Syrk wrote:
23 Nov 2019 22:29
The change makes some imbued items to degrade but others stay forever (or till the next purge, whenver it may be).
Who said anything about casters?

You say that its wrong for some items to be undulling or unbreakable but it is fine for some imbues to last forver?
Syrk, But I think the main issue is with undulling items used in combat, right. Now, when you dont fight your eq not dulls as well and stay forever, right? Nothing change, except some undulling weapons with intense imbues will break one day. That was the main issue here.
Secondary issue, raised by some was unduling eq used by people who don't tank. And the solution proposed by Arman, solve this issue as well.
Third issue, raised by few was a lot of eq people have hidden in the chest, drop rooms or just keep in inventory. Also this will be solved by this Arma purge.
But here I would like to suggest something:

1. Only armors and weapons should be purged

2. Non-magical items should not be purged.
I think this can be especially important for younger players. If they have their non-magical eq, they will not loose it.

3. Im not sure if all magical eq should be purged? Maybe it can be limited only to the weapons with stats over xx/xx and armors with AC>yy, plus all imbued items?

4. I think that it would be fair if before this Arma purge there would be created device that would transform our imbued items and gave us back a stone not with 1/9 value, but with full value. I mean ordinary stone for faint imbue, unblemished stone for pron imbue, etc? And it would be only one time action because of this first purge.

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