Perma-saving items

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Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Draugor » 20 Nov 2019 14:39

Just make shit decay, combat or not, alot of guilds have massive hoards atm of topnotch stuff and can prolly go on grinding for years only on that shit, 4 weeks after it drops the item goes away provided it doesent break first, simple and people can time it also incentivizes people to hunt. And remove all non-dull/break features

Draugor
Myth
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Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Draugor » 20 Nov 2019 14:45

Amberlee wrote:
20 Nov 2019 14:34
Personally I think the old system was an imperfect but still the best solution, and any system that has come after even the one that will be the successor of this one will be worse than it.

The answer is quite simple.
Revert to old one over the course of 1 arma with a fair warning to all.
If you want some items to save give the option to buy safes where you can guarantee saving of 2-3 non imbued items.
This can even be introduced as a "special rack" in guildhalls where members can put 2-3 items.
Have imbued items guarantee saving over 1 arma so that perhaps getting intense imbuements can be worth it.
Re-introduce ironstones.. A tremendous resource that costs a lot to maintain.. aka huge money sink.

Basically this would take care of most problems.
- Newbies could save specific desired equipment.
- Imbuements have more meaning again.
- Unbreakable armours become a huge but expensive resource and undulling weapons have a limited life span.
- Equipment hunting becomes a thing again, cause right now it's a fucking pain in the ass to find anything due to the over filled racks of everyone.
- You don't have to spend a fuckton of time designing a new and vastly inferior system.

OOOR! OOOOOOOOOOOOR!!!

The goddamn lockers I have suggested a billion times. Or just limit it to saving on ones person and ONLY a limited item number

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nils
Expert
Posts: 270
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by nils » 20 Nov 2019 15:35

Amberlee wrote:
20 Nov 2019 14:34
Personally I think the old system was an imperfect but still the best solution, and any system that has come after even the one that will be the successor of this one will be worse than it.

The answer is quite simple.
Revert to old one over the course of 1 arma with a fair warning to all.
If you want some items to save give the option to buy safes where you can guarantee saving of 2-3 non imbued items.
This can even be introduced as a "special rack" in guildhalls where members can put 2-3 items.
Have imbued items guarantee saving over 1 arma so that perhaps getting intense imbuements can be worth it.
Re-introduce ironstones.. A tremendous resource that costs a lot to maintain.. aka huge money sink.

Basically this would take care of most problems.
- Newbies could save specific desired equipment.
- Imbuements have more meaning again.
- Unbreakable armours become a huge but expensive resource and undulling weapons have a limited life span.
- Equipment hunting becomes a thing again, cause right now it's a fucking pain in the ass to find anything due to the over filled racks of everyone.
- You don't have to spend a fuckton of time designing a new and vastly inferior system.
OOOOORRR

Simply say that from february 1st 2020, everything reverts to normal (read as it was). That gives us two whole months and a couple days to enjoy the fruits of our investments.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Saimon
Wanderer
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017 23:08

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Saimon » 21 Nov 2019 01:25

I would like to propose to come back to the proposal Arman wrote here and give my opinion about no-dulling weapons.

First of all in my opinion the change with ever saving items was very good and bring much more good than bad. But it needs some tuning. And these tuning are no dull weapons.

There are two types of no dull weapons and purpose they are used for:
1. Top rated weapons with very nice stats.
Examples: FBB, Azure rune-etched longsword, holy blade, Crystal axe, Spiked steel tessto, Golden trident, Blackened mithril lance, Silver-tipped ironwood hoopak, etc

All these weapons are use for daily grind and fight. Because of it players imbue them with stones according their needs and preferences: speed, heal, extra damage, boost of one of stat, etc. If player can afford it is an intense imbue.

2. Weapons with worse stats used for never ending imbue keeper

These weapons are used by some guilds (mainly casters but not only) as tool to have never breaking imbue. Mainly there are imbues like speed, heal, maybe some mortal stats increase, etc. Almost every time there are intense imbues.

And introduction such a weapons that was side effect of the introduction ever saving items is in my opinion a serious balance disorder of the Gen. When the imbue system was implemented I think nobody forecast that if you have some cash or stones in your lapidarium you can have one of the best (or the best) weapon with so strong imbue forever. The same with balance of the guilds. I dont think any AoB from the past or present added intense imbues on non dulling wepons into balance equation.

So, I welcome the Arman's proposal with great satisfaction. It is interesting but it has some weak points as well. The most important is connected with fact that when you get the weapon a few hours before Armageddon you will not enjoy it a lot. And to fully use of the weapon you gather at the begging of the Arma you will have to play everyday during next 10-12 days. I know it from Ogres guild. When I wanted to buy a sladgehammer I had to first answer if I will be able play for next 10-12 days often enough it is worth to pay for the sledge (and the cost is not that small).

So I would like to propose two alternatives to consider:

1. Put non dulling weapons back into old saving system:

There are a lot of people who hates fight with dulling weapons. For them the need of keep non dulling properties is very strong. So I would propose to move back all non-dull weapons to the old saving system. There are items (some wands, bottles, etc) on the Gen that still are in old saving system that allows to survive 1-2 and if someone has a luck 3 recoveries (log outs or Armageddons). This solution can be attractive for people who doesn't play to often but would like to have a non dull weapons. Others who has access to safe drop rooms could imbue such a weapon and be sure it will survive more than few days to the next Armageddon. But these "few days" it is not more than 20-30 days. So from one side it is already some time, big enough to be worth to imbue with something more than ordinary stone.

2. Change non dulling weapons to slow dulling

The speed the weapon dulls is very different. For instance rust-red cleaver dulls quite fast and mithril crescent-moon axe dulls very slow. The same is with other types of weapons as well. Good side of such a change would be for players without access to the safe racks, they could have weapons they like always with them they they wake up. People who doesn't play much could have it very, very long, so they could invest and imbue it as well. People who grind a lot would have to replace such a weapon quite often, probably more than one time per arma, but people who plays a few hours a week could have such a weapon for months (but time of real usage of such weapon would be the same). The only gain would be for casters who don't dull to much a weapon when they casts spells, so the usage of such a weapon as "imbue keeper" would be significantly longer than in 1st case.

So, Arman, please consider these two solution as well.

Another issue connected a bit with non dulling weapons are items with intense ironstone imbue. They are in fact non dull now. This breaks balance as well. Especially that you cannot make such imbue now, and players who did it before removal ironstones from Gen have unfair to others privileges. I have also two proposal of solution for this:

1. Make items with intense ironstone imbues slow dull. Thanks to this one day all items with intense ironstone one day will break

2. Forbid usage items with ironstone imbues but create a device that convert item with intense ironstone imbue into glittering ironstone that will be given to player, and next player will be able to convert such an ironstone into any other stone (like we all were able to do).

I hope my proposals will help finding the best solution that will be implemented. And 1st of January 2020 is a very good date for implementing such a change.

Thalric
Adept
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Thalric » 21 Nov 2019 12:25

Make all items degrade by time worn or wielded.
Doesn't matter if front or behind. If you tank it just goes faster.
And put the decay at a reasonable time to last as long as you like.
Want it to last 20 days, and it has perhaps 10 levels of degrade if repaired... item goes down 1 every second day.

Ohh.. And I believe that people with non-break armours has benefitted from them long enough.

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Mersereau
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Mersereau » 21 Nov 2019 13:32

I suggest we go back to the old edict of Boron.

Only one issue of any magical item in the realm.

That will fix everything.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

Rincon
Great Adventurer
Posts: 181
Joined: 04 Jun 2010 23:37

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Rincon » 21 Nov 2019 22:58

Or... keep non dulling weapons, but make them impossible to imbue. Also set a general rule that average 'to hit' + 'pen' of a non dulling weapon cannot be greater than e.g. 40 (up to you Arman, ofcourse). So an FBB would be 35/45, crystal axe 30/50, etc.

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Zhar
Wizard
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Zhar » 22 Nov 2019 07:48

Mersereau wrote:
21 Nov 2019 13:32
I suggest we go back to the old edict of Boron.

Only one issue of any magical item in the realm.

That will fix everything.
Another idea would be to make it impossible for magical items to spawn with imbuements. Maybe even make it impossible to imbue magical items (magic interference and such).

This would bring the item power level down significantly.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Arman
Wizard
Posts: 557
Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Arman » 23 Nov 2019 10:29

An update following discussions amongst the admin group:

Taking note of all the feedback, we decided there were two feasible options we could run with. The one we decided on doing is having all equipment used in the course of combat to have an 'end-life', based on time used in combat.

This will mean that items that traditionally haven't decayed through use - such as armours for non-tanks, non-dull weapons, or imbued wearables - will have a finite lifespan.

It will also mean that this will impact the heavy grinder more than the casual player... which I think is a reasonable outcome.

We've managed to figure out the code for it... mind, we don't know yet what the load will be like on our systems. Following testing we'll have a better idea of when we will roll this out... however it is likely to be just before Christmas (like ~20 December).

Around that same time, we are considering doing an equipment purge. We understand equipment hoarding is an issue with this system (as opposed to all equipment just ending after 2-3 armageddons), so equipment 'armageddons' may become a bi-annual event. Maybe. This is something we are still chewing on... but if we do do the purge we want it before the Xmas event Cherek is working on.

Thalric
Adept
Posts: 129
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Thalric » 23 Nov 2019 12:30

Just remember to give us info in good time, so we can transmogrify all our imbued stuff before then. :)

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