Perma-saving items

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Val
Apprentice
Posts: 33
Joined: 31 Jul 2014 19:00

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Val » 23 Nov 2019 23:36

Syrk wrote:
23 Nov 2019 22:29
The change makes some imbued items to degrade but others stay forever (or till the next purge, whenver it may be).
Who said anything about casters?

You say that its wrong for some items to be undulling or unbreakable but it is fine for some imbues to last forver?
I fully agree. I believe the best solution would be if nothing could survive forever, used or not. Make the maximum item life period 3-4 Armageddons, after that let it become non-saver.

This way we would avoid 2 things:
1. The hoarding eq again (the purge would solve it just for a while).
2. Everyone implementing tons of more or less automated behaviours removing all eq when fighting but not tanking.

Anfalas
Wanderer
Posts: 55
Joined: 10 May 2016 02:41

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Anfalas » 23 Nov 2019 23:45

Syrk wrote:
23 Nov 2019 22:29
The change makes some imbued items to degrade but others stay forever (or till the next purge, whenver it may be).
Who said anything about casters?
You did.
Syrk wrote:
23 Nov 2019 20:21
kelrhys wrote:
23 Nov 2019 17:37
but I do not believe that causes a major imbalance?
An example.
A magic user will possess a few intense heal and spellcraft imbues, which he will not use during combat but will auto-equip in breaks between combats.
Thus his rest time between engagements will be greatly reduced thanks to health and mana infusion provided by the items. And those items will last - it seems they will last much longer than other (figthing) imbued items.

Another player will use an intense magic damage on his weapon. But the weapon will degrade and break in some time.

The magic user will sell/trade/convert other stones to balm and lode stones which will be the new kings.
At first players will try to trade the stones at 1:1 ratio but very soon the ratio will change.

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3010
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 24 Nov 2019 00:02

Syrk wrote:
23 Nov 2019 22:29
The change makes some imbued items to degrade but others stay forever (or till the next purge, whenver it may be).
Who said anything about casters?

You say that its wrong for some items to be undulling or unbreakable but it is fine for some imbues to last forver?
Maybe I misunderstood you, but it sounded like you meant magic users (casters) would have an advantage over fighters after the change due to imbues that can be used out of combat. But maybe that's now what you meant?

I never said it's wrong to have undulling and unbreakble items, and those will still be available. The only change is that they wont last forever anymore, which is the problem with them right now. And if we have purges, or an out of combat "end time" for all EQ, items not used in combat won't last forever either. But yes, items used in combat will last a shorter time than items not used in combat, which I think makes sense logically due to wear and tear of battle.

And I agree, it will most likely make some items/imbues that are beneficial out of combat a bit more valuable than they are today. But the only ones I can think of are darkvision, heal, awareness, and sneak/hide. So, we're really only talking about four imbues + a couple of other items that provide similar benefits. Out of those I only think the heal one is a potential problem? It doesn't have to become one, though, but at least worth monitoring.

Saimon
Wanderer
Posts: 62
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 23:08

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Saimon » 24 Nov 2019 00:24

Cherek wrote:
24 Nov 2019 00:02
(...) But the only ones I can think of are darkvision, heal, awareness, and sneak/hide.(...)
I dont think anyone who is using darkvision remove it during fight. It is used mainly during fights to have boost in fights. Sneak/hide if it is not used to have boost against players, it is used in fights as well. Awareness can be used less in fight and I can imagine heal can be used only outside fight.

And Im agree with Syrk and Val that every item should stay on gen no longer than 3 armas (1 month in RL).

Quantum
Greenhorne
Posts: 9
Joined: 22 Aug 2019 19:33

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Quantum » 24 Nov 2019 01:12

I think I like Armans idea. One suggestion could be that only "enchanted" marked items, items with high high stats, have the internal counter. That way you can still donate splendid swords, Bubba armour, plate armours etc to new players and let them keep their basic gear.

Q

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3010
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 24 Nov 2019 01:52

Saimon wrote:
24 Nov 2019 00:24

I dont think anyone who is using darkvision remove it during fight. It is used mainly during fights to have boost in fights. Sneak/hide if it is not used to have boost against players, it is used in fights as well. Awareness can be used less in fight and I can imagine heal can be used only outside fight.

And Im agree with Syrk and Val that every item should stay on gen no longer than 3 armas (1 month in RL).
Yes darkvision is of course mainly used in fights, but it has _some_ use in other situations as well, which is why I listed it as a possible non-combat imbuement, even if the main use clearly is in combat. Sneak/hide does have quite a lot of use out of combat, so, theoretically you could have a set of gear with sneak/hide boost that you only use when not fighting, in order to make it last longer. I don't really see that as a problem, though.

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nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by nils » 24 Nov 2019 12:09

Wouldn't it be easier to implement, and have the same end-result, if you simply reverted back to the old system, but increased the overall chance of an item saving?

And if newbies losing their EQ is a problem, give the newbie-pin a function that overrides the core mechanic and save all inventory regardless.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 587
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Kvator » 24 Nov 2019 20:22

Purge will be related to spells as well, or you want to give another advantage to magic-users? :(

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Cherek
Site Admin
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 25 Nov 2019 00:26

nils wrote:
24 Nov 2019 12:09
Wouldn't it be easier to implement, and have the same end-result, if you simply reverted back to the old system, but increased the overall chance of an item saving?

And if newbies losing their EQ is a problem, give the newbie-pin a function that overrides the core mechanic and save all inventory regardless.

But it's not only newbies who benefit from the "save on person"-system. That's just one of several benefits with things saving on a player. Other benefits that would go away if we reverted:
- You don't need to gear up every time you want to play (unless you're in a guild that demands it).
- Less need for players in more open guilds to hide stuff in private droprooms around the realms in order not to lose it.
- Casual players benefit a lot by being able to save things on their person which gives them more incentive to play.
- The imbue you worked hard for can be _yours_ as long as it lasts.
- No risk to lose stuff by accidentally LD'ing out and lose EQ. (That always sucked)
- No risk of accidentally quitting out with glowing EQ on you to "lose a glow".

Do we really want to remove the good things with the new system, and bring back the old issues? I think we can do better than just reverting.

As for letting the newbie pin save all inventory, that was discussed in the past (before the ever-saving change), and the concern was that players and/or seconds below veteran would be used as "eq mules" to save older player's stuff. Which is definitely a legitimate concern I think.

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Cherek
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Re: Perma-saving items

Post by Cherek » 25 Nov 2019 00:29

Kvator wrote:
24 Nov 2019 20:22
Purge will be related to spells as well, or you want to give another advantage to magic-users? :(
Please explain what you mean. Are you saying herbs and components should be purged too?

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