WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

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Draugor
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Draugor » 15 Jul 2019 13:40

Arman wrote:I'd actually like to see the 'who' system go the other way. Whether you are introduced or not, the greater your mortal level the more likely you are to be known... I've found it ironic that there can be unknown 'legends' and 'myths'.

Everyone knew who Druss the Legend was, whether they'd met him or not!

I do take some of the points around the importance of anonymity for some guilds. I don't mind it being a taxable feature of certain guild styles... like rangers and rogues. Could add an additional level of distinction to those class types.
So, make it make no sense whatsoever? :P

People KNEW OF Druss they didnt know him, as in word of mouth, they did not know when eh was sleeping or anything like it :P And quite a few people in the books mistook him for an old man with an axe and couldnt concieve he was the captain of the axe.


Old wholist. Best wholist. Make newbiehelpers visible as they have colounteered for it, by your logic Artemis Entreri should be world famous in Faerun aswell, not that many even in the underworld knew more than loose rumours and he was one of the deadliest in the realm.

The current list only makes it so people avoid certain areas if they see certain names they dont know awake, it makes for less interaction and in quite a few ways promote people to only sit in the guild and idle untill they see X not on the list so they can go out. It directly goes against making people interact and avoid pvp for instance. This is when I get the inane "Reee people know via discord reeee" Doesent matter in game. And far from everyone is on discord. And AGAIN, anti social wholist.

sylphan
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by sylphan » 15 Jul 2019 14:58

Arman wrote:I've found it ironic that there can be unknown 'legends' and 'myths'.
Clearly, you do not listen to enough Neil Young.

Seriously, though, I don't think other players' renown should be coded. Much more effective as a result of roleplay, like the scary stories I heard about Fluffy before ever encountering him.

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Arman
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Arman » 15 Jul 2019 15:19

Draugor wrote:Or! OR! People that are newbiehelpers are seen so it aint completely insane? :P
Let's say it's someone in something of a secretive guild, rangers, assassins, kenders, morguls or the like and they are seen and in the open, immersion goes right out the window instantly and where is the excitement of actaully meeting someone if you know everyone? No, revert to the old wholist that wasnt one of the dumbest things ever made :P
Whose not in a secretive guild nowadays? When I check my special who list of player descriptions, all I see is players hidden behind cloaks! May as well get rid of the introduction feature all together.

In a text based game, titles and ranks of players are things stoke the curiosity of new players... and has from the beginning of Genesis. A who list of a dozen meaningless names adds nothing to a new players experience and doesn't inspire them to play on to find out - say - more about what that Order of the Dragon is, or check out a reference to a title from a book read in the distant past, or see if they can become a Deathbringing ogre. Even casual players may be inspired to play a bit more if they see something new on their who list. If we reverted to the old who list, most players who list would consist of just themselves and wizards.. what a great promotion of the activity in the game! :P

Any system that would be even remotely considered to replace the current who system would need to consider all this... which is far more likely to be a solution that goes in the opposite direction to what is being proposed in this forum. Just sayin.

Draugor
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Draugor » 15 Jul 2019 16:07

Arman wrote:
Draugor wrote:Or! OR! People that are newbiehelpers are seen so it aint completely insane? :P
Let's say it's someone in something of a secretive guild, rangers, assassins, kenders, morguls or the like and they are seen and in the open, immersion goes right out the window instantly and where is the excitement of actaully meeting someone if you know everyone? No, revert to the old wholist that wasnt one of the dumbest things ever made :P
Whose not in a secretive guild nowadays? When I check my special who list of player descriptions, all I see is players hidden behind cloaks! May as well get rid of the introduction feature all together.

In a text based game, titles and ranks of players are things stoke the curiosity of new players... and has from the beginning of Genesis. A who list of a dozen meaningless names adds nothing to a new players experience and doesn't inspire them to play on to find out - say - more about what that Order of the Dragon is, or check out a reference to a title from a book read in the distant past, or see if they can become a Deathbringing ogre. Even casual players may be inspired to play a bit more if they see something new on their who list. If we reverted to the old who list, most players who list would consist of just themselves and wizards.. what a great promotion of the activity in the game! :P

Any system that would be even remotely considered to replace the current who system would need to consider all this... which is far more likely to be a solution that goes in the opposite direction to what is being proposed in this forum. Just sayin.
You can already see the number of active members, if anything put "People you dont know yet" and then put unknown over people :P Again, make beeing on it optional so people just dont idle in their guilds cause X is online, that's just dumb :P And horrendous to the entire theme of genesis, and aint theme your big thing? :P

Instead of "Who's this?" and then beeing at awe of title etc that would entirely kill any sense of awe or secrecy in the game and make it so much more boring. For larger players, like I have said multiple t imes "Oh x is online, never met him but hey they say he's a morgul, better avoid them, we wouldnt want to interact with other people"

Greneth
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Greneth » 15 Jul 2019 21:26

Arman wrote:
Draugor wrote:Or! OR! People that are newbiehelpers are seen so it aint completely insane? :P
Let's say it's someone in something of a secretive guild, rangers, assassins, kenders, morguls or the like and they are seen and in the open, immersion goes right out the window instantly and where is the excitement of actaully meeting someone if you know everyone? No, revert to the old wholist that wasnt one of the dumbest things ever made :P
Whose not in a secretive guild nowadays? When I check my special who list of player descriptions, all I see is players hidden behind cloaks! May as well get rid of the introduction feature all together.

In a text based game, titles and ranks of players are things stoke the curiosity of new players... and has from the beginning of Genesis. A who list of a dozen meaningless names adds nothing to a new players experience and doesn't inspire them to play on to find out - say - more about what that Order of the Dragon is, or check out a reference to a title from a book read in the distant past, or see if they can become a Deathbringing ogre. Even casual players may be inspired to play a bit more if they see something new on their who list. If we reverted to the old who list, most players who list would consist of just themselves and wizards.. what a great promotion of the activity in the game! :P

Any system that would be even remotely considered to replace the current who system would need to consider all this... which is far more likely to be a solution that goes in the opposite direction to what is being proposed in this forum. Just sayin.
Revert to old who list and add on how many players are in game. BUT, for those who choose to be listed for all to see including their titles either on the normal who list or newbie helpers get an additional bonus. A Helper Bonus, that can be any number of things.

Maybe a bigger exp bonus when teaming with a newbie. Maybe a random bonus set up like the weekly chef quest, obtainable once a day or something.

Give people incentive to put themselves out there and let others who wish to remain unknown the ability.

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Arman
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Arman » 16 Jul 2019 05:02

Draugor wrote:Again, make beeing on it optional so people just dont idle in their guilds cause X is online
So unpack this. What it sounds like to me is player X's antisocial (or otherwise) behaviour and/or reputation has resulted in players who don't want to engage with them to choose their play time in the realms around player X's inactivity? You want changes to be made to force a playstyle on players to cater to X? What a terrible sales pitch.

Draugor
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Draugor » 16 Jul 2019 08:21

Arman wrote:
Draugor wrote:Again, make beeing on it optional so people just dont idle in their guilds cause X is online
So unpack this. What it sounds like to me is player X's antisocial (or otherwise) behaviour and/or reputation has resulted in players who don't want to engage with them to choose their play time in the realms around player X's inactivity? You want changes to be made to force a playstyle on players to cater to X? What a terrible sales pitch.

Player X is often someone that A. Hunts in that ground alot so people dont go there cause they cant have it to themselevs
B. Guards the grounds on behalf of their guild.

I want that horrendously dumb list to be changed cause it directly kills player interaction something the admin claims they do want :P

Old wholist was superior in that regard, it has nada to do with "antisocial" It's about "They will take away from my xp" or "I cant script in peace when they are awake cause I cant make triggers that dont killsteal to save my life"

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Arman
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Arman » 16 Jul 2019 09:37

Draugor wrote:
Arman wrote:
Draugor wrote:Again, make beeing on it optional so people just dont idle in their guilds cause X is online
So unpack this. What it sounds like to me is player X's antisocial (or otherwise) behaviour and/or reputation has resulted in players who don't want to engage with them to choose their play time in the realms around player X's inactivity? You want changes to be made to force a playstyle on players to cater to X? What a terrible sales pitch.

Player X is often someone that A. Hunts in that ground alot so people dont go there cause they cant have it to themselevs
B. Guards the grounds on behalf of their guild.

I want that horrendously dumb list to be changed cause it directly kills player interaction something the admin claims they do want :P

Old wholist was superior in that regard, it has nada to do with "antisocial" It's about "They will take away from my xp" or "I cant script in peace when they are awake cause I cant make triggers that dont killsteal to save my life"
Changing the who list won't change player behaviour in the scenario you've outlined, nor drive player interaction. Hypothetically they'll simply scry player X instead for the same outcome.

Look, I am open minded about Syrk's original points around anonymity, secrecy and mysticism... but I don't see the proposed change really making any really positive difference in isolation to other changes.

Draugor
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Draugor » 16 Jul 2019 13:32

From : Gendalf
Subject: that giant lion in the cave
To : Amberlee
CC : Balhut, Cassius, Draugor and Elmeric
Date : Tue Jul 16 09:04:03 2019

Hi! Have you already beaten the ass of giant lion in the cave near the castle?
If not, I would like to invite you to join and have some fun.

----------------------------------------------------------

Another thing that might change if the list reverts to something where you're not always named and on blast :P
Newbiehelpers can be visible, it makes alot more sense, one of quite a few of these mails that have been recieved over the years.

Nerull
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Nerull » 16 Jul 2019 13:41

What if who command keeps a delay on unknown players? People you have on remember will be present / visible in realtime, but others you have heard of / not in memory will still be displayed over x time (even if they log out).

That should add a disruptive element in who's actually online (unless you utilize scry) at any given time of people not known to you.

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