WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

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Zugzug
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Zugzug » 19 Jul 2019 11:16

Draugor wrote:
Raelle wrote:
Mim wrote:Topic is Who. Someone told me that today some guild(s) can scry unknown people from Who list.
Pls tell me this is fake news. Pls.
if a character is awake and has a name, they can be scried
And you can see if they are awake even tho you dont know them :D Yaaay!
I will tell you another secret!

Apparently, until Warlock scry was implemented and this bug was reported, it has been possible for people with guild-scries to be able to do something like
"scry verminaard" or
"scry Akugla"
and it would work or not, based on if that npc was present in the realms...

Imagine that!

Draugor
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Draugor » 19 Jul 2019 11:17

Zugzug wrote:
I will tell you another secret!

Apparently, until Warlock scry was implemented and this bug was reported, it has been possible for people with guild-scries to be able to do something like
"scry verminaard" or
"scry Akugla"
and it would work or not, based on if that npc was present in the realms...

Imagine that!

It's a mystery is what it is!

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nils
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by nils » 19 Jul 2019 17:46

Back in the day mobs introed and if you remembered them they'd show up on the who-list.

Illuminati confirmed.

Can we stop wasting time on this non-issue now?
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Draugor
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Draugor » 19 Jul 2019 18:00

nils wrote:Back in the day mobs introed and if you remembered them they'd show up on the who-list.

Illuminati confirmed.

Can we stop wasting time on this non-issue now?
No :) Now hush, Angmar is the epitome of balance.

The NPC's introing makes sense if you dont differenciate between NPC and PC tho, think it was removed cause it was just another tool for gearcamping

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Mim
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Mim » 19 Jul 2019 23:04

Zugzug wrote: I will tell you another secret!

Apparently, until Warlock scry was implemented and this bug was reported, it has been possible for people with guild-scries to be able to do something like
"scry verminaard" or
"scry Akugla"
and it would work or not, based on if that npc was present in the realms...

Imagine that!
That is no secret.
Every NPC you needed to camp, showed up in the WHO-list.
Everybody I know used it. For us Gladiators, Goliath was THE NPC we wanted to see when he respawned.
Those days BSA was the best axe and it was anyhanded.
This possibility to see an NPC in WHO-list was removed for a very good reason.
A very good reason IMO.
Why someone managed to 'null out' this good reason with a scry spell is hard to imagine.
Scry used to be torque to torque for another IMO good reason.

To be able to cast spells on players you never met or introduced to, or on NPCs from WHO-list, is just scary.

"Apparently, until Warlock scry was implemented and this bug was reported,"
Ok. If it is a bug, then I agree with Nils it's a nothing matter that hopefully will be cleared soon (if it is not already).
If it is something else, I think it is scary.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

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Arman
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Arman » 20 Jul 2019 05:41

Mim wrote: To be able to cast spells on players you never met or introduced to, or on NPCs from WHO-list, is just scary.

"Apparently, until Warlock scry was implemented and this bug was reported,"
Ok. If it is a bug, then I agree with Nils it's a nothing matter that hopefully will be cleared soon (if it is not already).
If it is something else, I think it is scary.
Scrying non-known players has been around for a long while. We are talking 10 years, from what the code documentation of the standardised scry spell tells me.

And from looking at the code, it is pretty clear it isn't a bug. It is a feature.

If this is something that horribly bothers/scares you, it may be worth considering looking in to some form of scry protection.

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Mim
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Mim » 20 Jul 2019 10:06

Arman wrote:
Mim wrote: If this is something that horribly bothers/scares you, it may be worth considering looking in to some form of scry protection.
What scares me is perhaps not the spell itself, even if I personally do not like it (which ofc is a non issue).
What scares me is that a feature, that was sole torque to torque before, is opened up by some creative GM.
Not just to include guildmembers themselves, but to anyone in a who-list.
The torque to torque was well thought over and well implemented into the game.
Even the second version of the Torque-quest honored this solution.

It was back then considered, by administration, that seeing NPCs in a who-list, was poor/bad for the game, and the feature was removed.
IMO (obviously) for a good reason. If it is good for a spell, why not put the old feature back, when everyone could see the NPC in the list?
Short answer: Who-list should not be used in such a way.

So what scares me is not perhaps not a single spell like this one.
It is the can of worms that can be opened by adding the who-list into the code of future active spells and specials.
Teleport to Mim. Cast Lightning cloud on Nils. Summon Nazgul on Verminaard.
Not very likely I admit, and possibly nothing to be scared of.
But allowing who-list in such a way. *shudder*

*cheers*
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

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Mim
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Mim » 20 Jul 2019 14:54

Come to think of it, was the old scry torque to torque?
Not sure when I think of it. Mim did not use the spell very much if at all.
If it was scry-anyone in wholist, maybe my worrying is not worth much.
Still, the keeper seems to have agreed when he made scry torque->torque.
Im dropping the subject here.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

Zugzug
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Re: WHO - why too much transparency is bad for Genesis

Post by Zugzug » 21 Jul 2019 15:19

For people who advocate that unmet players should not be shown on the who list, I can tell you three reasons why you are wrong:

Armor, Weapons and Coins.

Yep, those three are actual names of people I haven't met :D

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