About Quest XP

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Amberlee
Myth
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Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Drow and Minas Tirith - latest status?

Post by Amberlee » 24 May 2020 00:08

Cherek wrote:
23 May 2020 16:38
Amberlee wrote:
22 May 2020 19:57
Reason you don't see evil players struggling with it is simple.
We say "Go goodie until you finish Minas Tirith or you are borked!"
No Amberlee, you're exaggerating how much this matters. Most of our big players already MISS more QXP than what you get from doing the Minas Tirith goodie-only quests. Simply because they haven't bothered with doing all quests. Most players are not near the cap, and few players finish all quests, or even close to all quests - and they still grow to myth and beyond.

Sure, being a neutral human is always the best thing you can do when questing, which isn't great game design, but only a fairly small percentage of the available QXP is actually alignment-restricted. Finish the quests you CAN do, and you'll be perfectly fine, regardless of align. But yes, being neutral is best for questing, followed by being good, and evils get the short end of the stick when it comes to quests. And while it's unfair that neutral or evil is better for grinding, it's of course also unfair that good or neutral is better for questing.
I am not exaggerating how much it matters though.
And yes some of our biggest players have nowhere near the max amount.
However can bet your hide they have all the goodie ones.
Those quests make of for an enormous pool of XP tbh.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Mim
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Re: Drow and Minas Tirith - latest status?

Post by Mim » 25 May 2020 09:02

nils wrote:
23 May 2020 12:23
Well, I f'ing disagree. I think what you're proposing is as short sighted, dumbfounded and ill-advised as the 'foreversave'-farce.

That system is what makes Genesis what it is. You're threatening the very core of the game, where in order to be truly successful it's not enough to grind like a madman, you actually have to solve a couple problems, apply yourself and visit/learn otherwise desolate domains.

The best post in this thread.
Removing the incitament to do quests would be a serious blow to the game imo.
I wonder how many really do have reached the qxp cap?
Old players myself certainly do, but who cares if a few old fogeys have?

Players who did not do quests really missed out something.
Really, the best memories I have from this game are quest related. The time I ran around in Gondor looking for ingredients to a rabbit stew before armageddon came (armageddon came every 4th hour roughly) and after making the stew missing out something important pissing off the rangers.
Went to Mirkwood with Monikas first char. A hobbit knight to do the Mirkwood spider quest.
REALLY dangerous and scary. Lot of people died there and even todays superchamps would shy those spiders.
Extra spice was I made that quest from work with the risk of a boss would come in and disturb us. :p
Making Torque or Katana quests in 4hrs (items did not save) required some luck. The biggest threats were other players who tried to do the quest too. I recall one important key in a drawer and after arma there was a RACE for that key as if you did not have it, the quest was impossible to finish. I even ended up in a fight with a friend when we raced for the key.

Best quest in the game?
I think it mattered a lot with who you did it, when you did it, if you hade a solution or not.
But top quests IMO are Torque, bury bones, free elf prisoner, murder, MM entrance and a few more I forgot right now.
I had a wiz char many years ago who made a quest. That quest took me 5 years(!) to complete and it was great fun when I saw players struggle trying to solve it.
Removing all that, and removing the reward and incitament to do quests, would probably mean removing a great part of the game, and that would sadden me.

I recall some suggestions that one could 'import' qxp from main chars to alts should be doable.
Perhaps that is a solution. Not sure I like it, but redoing all the quests if you start up new is not as fun as the first time, that far I can go.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

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Zhar
Wizard
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Re: About Quest XP

Post by Zhar » 25 May 2020 13:50

That's why we're not talking about removing quests completely. It's a fine line we're walking here. No one wants to make quests completely irrelevant, what I for one would like to see is quests being the difference between your regular casual player and truly dedicated one.

What we also have to consider is that it's not really an equal opportunity. I know it's much easier nowadays to get a hold of quest solutions and with discord you can ask people for help much easier but we still have to think about players who for some reason can't or won't use discord and won't get their hands on quest solutions. They will struggle immensely and will probably get disheartened rather easily.

I get where you're coming from with your fond memories Mim but you must also acknowledge that those were completely different times. People didn't get so big back then (hell, most people didn't have time to grow big as they didn't have internet at home, I know I didn't when I started) and for the most part you could've reached max mortal level with very few quests and still sit comfortably at relatively low brute (for comparison old max mortal level was equivalent to today's veteran). There just wasn't as much pressure and emphasis on questing. Sure, it was great to have done the quests and those who've made the most were legends like Jafo who was pacifistic at champion, but most people didn't really do that many of them.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Kvator
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Re: Drow and Minas Tirith - latest status?

Post by Kvator » 25 May 2020 22:25

Mim wrote:
25 May 2020 09:02
Best quest in the game?
Labal quest in Terel that was made few (10?) years ago.
Just a great design -> with just a few locations but each having lots of stuff to do.

Dunno who made it but kudos to him/her.

Removing qexp as suggested by few won't result in influx of new players (doing quests with soultions is like the best way to learn the game) -> it would rather result in an army of alts.

Greneth
Wizard
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Re: Drow and Minas Tirith - latest status?

Post by Greneth » 26 May 2020 04:31

Kvator wrote:
25 May 2020 22:25
Mim wrote:
25 May 2020 09:02
Best quest in the game?
Labal quest in Terel that was made few (10?) years ago.
Just a great design -> with just a few locations but each having lots of stuff to do.

Dunno who made it but kudos to him/her.

Removing qexp as suggested by few won't result in influx of new players (doing quests with soultions is like the best way to learn the game) -> it would rather result in an army of alts.
Someone say army of alts? 8-)

My favorite quest is Noigo Maze from Cadu, most hated quest in game but when you complete it there is a sense of accomplishment. And then you see just how much exp it gives and you go right back to hating it.

Boreaulam
Wizard
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Re: Drow and Minas Tirith - latest status?

Post by Boreaulam » 26 May 2020 09:01

Greneth wrote:
26 May 2020 04:31
My favorite quest is Noigo Maze from Cadu, most hated quest in game but when you complete it there is a sense of accomplishment. And then you see just how much exp it gives and you go right back to hating it.
I second it

I think that this quest should be reward as big BIG quest. No solution file may help you.

Also Torque quest is awesome.

Amberlee
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Re: About Quest XP

Post by Amberlee » 26 May 2020 12:22

Torque is pretty good.
Lots of background story of the domain baked into it and not too complicated.
Sadly that's the ONLY quest I can say that about.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Drazson
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Re: About Quest XP

Post by Drazson » 26 May 2020 16:48

Without quests, the game would be more of a grindfest indeed and, while passing quests from alts was a thought of mine as well, admittedly alt armies would not be a cool thing in the game as well.

I think "buff qexp" is keeping good stuff from both worlds. Either buff the quests which give rediculously little qexp or just pick epic/big/best-written/completed by less people quests and buff their rewards. I don't see why that's a problem.

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Cherek
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Re: About Quest XP

Post by Cherek » 26 May 2020 18:56

Drazson wrote:
26 May 2020 16:48
Without quests, the game would be more of a grindfest indeed and, while passing quests from alts was a thought of mine as well, admittedly alt armies would not be a cool thing in the game as well.

I think "buff qexp" is keeping good stuff from both worlds. Either buff the quests which give rediculously little qexp or just pick epic/big/best-written/completed by less people quests and buff their rewards. I don't see why that's a problem.
The problem with buffing quest rewards is the amount of work needed to make a system that increases the reward for those who already did the quests. For many quests that would probably be doable, but for quests with variable rewards, that would basically be impossible since we have no way of knowing if a player got the full reward or not. One solution would be to completely redo how quests work, and "re-add" the new amounts of QXP to all players based on which quests they have completed. But, the problem with variable quest rewards still remains, and other factors further complicates things too. Unfortunately the amount of QXP a player has is not equal to what you see in quest orbs, since your QXP pool is different depending how you solved the quests with variable rewards, and also if you have received quest rewards in other ways. For example kiosk quest, chef quest, and events, to name a few.

A quest reform project was started some decade ago to try to sort this out and recalculate the rewards. It didn't get very far, which is understandable, since we have 300+ quests spread out over hundreds, maybe thousands, of different files all over the server. It's a massive undertaking to try to sort out, because even if we don't have that many quests with variable rewards, we still need to manually check every quest to be 100% sure it's a "static reward quest", before we start messing with players QXP...

What we realistically could do is perhaps try to single out the "worst offenders" when it comes to bad rewards, check to see that they are "static rewards", and if they are, make special solutions for those select quests. But a big overhaul of all quests feels unlikely simply due to the work needed.

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Zhar
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Re: About Quest XP

Post by Zhar » 27 May 2020 03:49

I think we should also change the variable quests to static ones (this would solve the problem in the future) or at least let players redo it to get missing qxp. It's really stupid idea in my opinion. I get it that the designer of the quest wanted people to complete it in specific order and tick all the boxes to prevent cheating or whatever but it is ultimately unfair to the players who don't know which quests have variable rewards, which parts should not be skipped, how much you lose out on when you skip some etc. There's also a matter of opportunity and luck, if the quest wanted you to kill the dragon to get to its lair, you go there and the dragon is already dead what should you do? Wait for it to respawn? What if you don't have much time? Should you just abandon the quest you've spent 2 hours on to try it another time?

Dumbest idea ever. Especially considering how important qxp is currently. Is there even a way to tell if someone got less xp than they should for one of such quests? Or do you have to do them all and see if you've reached the cap or not (good luck waiting at least 5 years to do the chef station quest, not to mention event rewards)?

No matter how you look at it the current quest system is deeply flawed and has to be looked at and probably changed in way one or another because what we currently have is simply untenable.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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