What killed the PvP?

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Darken Rahl
Apprentice
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Joined: 26 Oct 2017 11:42

What killed the PvP?

Post by Darken Rahl » 03 Jul 2020 10:20

Semi hi-jack! It is relevant! Or I decided NOT To Hi-jack Cherek's thread regarding exp loss or equipment loss.

The system we have now is good! It was even worse before with no recovery exp! Then it was HARD to recover.
The problem doesn't lie in the system, the problem is player- and in game racedbased. Let me explain. To understand where we are today you need to know the background.

Old 90s days there were a lot of PvP, Rangers vs Angmars, Angmars vs Knights and Calians etc etc Then came the _broken_ Morgul mages (and protected they were. That we all know leave it there now.) and then RDA(autoimpale broken)/BDA and Dragonarmies vs Knights wars started. Looked wonderful so far. It was interaction, people died every now and then. Then when the MMORPGs came like Everquest, 1999, Dark Age of Camelot 2001, World of Warcraft 2004, and people getting internet at home since like 1995 and graphical games took over later. People starting to leave Genesis. Starting families etc etc.

So what guilds suffered hard from this ? Looks like Ranger, Calians and Knights and DA were the ones losing the most on this.
Rangers noone wanted to play, tickle tickle tickle tickle 20 mins later the orc died. (now people will say look at Xar yada yada) but overall Rangers rocked one on one.. sucks totally otherwise. So people stopped playing, Knights lost their playerbase over the years, calians did the same. Rangers was needed less and less.. and the nail in the coffin for rangers was when Psuchae(or how the hell it is spelled) was released. Rangers got obsolete and "died".

Knights playerbase started to disappear as well and the few that played, when recruited new ones and often got into war, totally perfect by themewise in game, but then there are a few players that will ruin the game for others. Supermyths DA at war.. ohh look a Titan Knight!! I kill it cause I can and are allowed so I can grab my <censored> and hammer the table underneath for some time and get an <censored>.
There has been yanks from knights as well the other way around. But heck when was the last time that happened ?
So imagine being a Titan Knight getting yanked and blocked block by a myth, this was no fun, I leave the knights, knights guild "dies"...

Q: So what? I cannot use my size to kill people? I have grinded like a nutcase for 10 years, shall you deny me the chance to kill some other player?
A: Of course not.. that is not what I am saying. Just use your brain.

And calians just disappeared as well, hardly any calians that played for a long time, they get back every now and then
but hardly any playerbase that can be counted on.

So to bring down these myths or supermyths you need to bring MORE players, don't get ahead of me here, the pun is coming, wait for it... so you rally your few knights and calians and you maybe succeed, you will if you know what you are doing! perfectly fine.. the next week, the Knight is out travelling alone and the myth starts to hunt. PAYBACK TIME! HAHA I will get his <censored> head on a plate. And the weaker knight is getting killed by this myth. Knight gets bored and leave the guild or even worse the game or plays another char and the guild dies. It works the same for calians. Their power when they are many noone can withstand, but solo they are like a Ranger++ and easy prey. So the councils negociates treaties between the guilds and stuff, to protect the members, to try and survive. But when the damage is allready done..
Or player x is online cause he or she will hunt me if I play, oh well I quit instead or idle in the guild.. and guild dies.


So those who stuck around and played gained size and are today supermyths!

What matters in PvP? KNOWLEDGE! Know when to strike and how to.
Knowledge gives you the advantage. Sheer power can also do that.
Size, guilds, equipment, etc also matters.

So what killed the PvP?
* Graphical MMOs, loss of playerbase, I know when Genesis had like 20 players per day in average.
* Closing of mystics
* Opening of new guilds, like Psuchae/Elementals, Mercenaries, Army of Darkness etc etc
* Loss of playerbase in Knights, Calians and Rangers and DA <<<<<< FIX THIS AND THE PVP will bloom again!
* Closing of Angmar when it was done.. Re-opened now. Not the same...
* Goblin race superiosity
* Not getting rid of assholes ruining the game (low playerbase at that time)
* No new generations into MUDS cause people were sitting at home and not at computer labs.. and Graphical games were and still are more appealing for the majority.
* more can be added as well. Feel free.

The people gets spread out over the guilds, less playerbase in each guild, less interaction and PvP cause new guilds tends to keep their "neutrality" ..
It is good that Genesis provides a lot of guilds for players choose between, but if you looking at the aspect of PvP as we are discussing now, it kinda spread the playerbase out. So get 120 in playerbase and we will have no problems.

I know what Cherek is trying to do,, to spice up the game. to get it to bloom in every aspect. I am interested to see what suggestion is presented BUT!!! a big BUT! Do not try to fix something that is not broken. I know you have eased up on some guilds about joining. GOOD! but those guilds needs to get a steady playerbase and the game will bloom by itself.

So to answer Cherek's note I think the equipment IF imbued are more precious. Non-imbued equipment I think the EXP is more precious. It differs from player to player.

So now people will scream and object and say it is not like this. Well it is and this is my opinion and you are free to post your own. But keep the flames out ok?

Amberlee
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Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Amberlee » 03 Jul 2020 13:54

What killed PvP?
Easy.
Over the top sizes due to grinding, ridiculous power of some guilds and the lack of abilities to prevent people from running away.
Also an increasingly cowardly playerbase that loves to pick on smaller people then requests deletion when it turns around and bites you in the ass.
YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Zhar
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Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Zhar » 03 Jul 2020 15:20

Amberlee wrote:
03 Jul 2020 13:54
the lack of abilities to prevent people from running away.
Could you clarify that a bit more? While being stunned no longer prevents you from moving (and some of the weapon effects that did that were removed) there has been the addition of block skill to everyone.

I wonder if we brought back some of the old or introduced some new ways of keeping people in place if it would change the frequency at which PvP occurs.

Edit: Another thing is lack of lag and everyone running scripts that can move them a hundred rooms in a split second, but the only solution I can think of for that would be introducing a global delay on time when moving from room to room (so you can't spam it). While this might be good for PvP (got time to land your root or whatever) it would slow the gameplay down a lot and I don't think most people would take it lightly.
There was this one MUD that I forgot the name of which even had different travel speeds, so you could run, jog, walk etc. and it would change the time it takes for you to travel but cost more stamina. Maybe something like that could be a solution (you can run without delay but you get tired really fast) but then we'd have to also factor in the mounts and such.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Kvator
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Kvator » 03 Jul 2020 16:24

Zhar wrote:
03 Jul 2020 15:20
There was this one MUD that I forgot the name of which even had different travel speeds, so you could run, jog, walk etc. and it would change the time it takes for you to travel but cost more stamina. Maybe something like that could be a solution (you can run without delay but you get tired really fast) but then we'd have to also factor in the mounts and such.
Arkadia - surprised that you forgot its name since most of ur ideas come from there xD and yes -> pvp system on that mud is great (for a text game)

There's big question though - do Genesis players (in general) want to Genesis to become more pvp-oriented game (when you can't chill and afk grind etc)? Imho for years Genesis was going in the direction to appease players that enjoy grind, accomplishments and similar stuff in non-stressful environment.

I enjoyed both muds, but stopped playing Arkadia entirely because it just doesn't fit my expectations as and adult mud player. It's not possible for me to play text game for few hours with full focus on it (because if you're not looking at screen for 1 minute you can be dead) anymore. I really prefer the chilly climate of Genesis nowadays -> and if I want some pvp action I prefer to play 30-min match of LoL instead of going for hours-long hunt in a text game :) )

Amberlee
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Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Amberlee » 03 Jul 2020 16:43

Zhar wrote:
03 Jul 2020 15:20
Amberlee wrote:
03 Jul 2020 13:54
the lack of abilities to prevent people from running away.
Could you clarify that a bit more? While being stunned no longer prevents you from moving (and some of the weapon effects that did that were removed) there has been the addition of block skill to everyone.

I wonder if we brought back some of the old or introduced some new ways of keeping people in place if it would change the frequency at which PvP occurs.

Edit: Another thing is lack of lag and everyone running scripts that can move them a hundred rooms in a split second, but the only solution I can think of for that would be introducing a global delay on time when moving from room to room (so you can't spam it). While this might be good for PvP (got time to land your root or whatever) it would slow the gameplay down a lot and I don't think most people would take it lightly.
There was this one MUD that I forgot the name of which even had different travel speeds, so you could run, jog, walk etc. and it would change the time it takes for you to travel but cost more stamina. Maybe something like that could be a solution (you can run without delay but you get tired really fast) but then we'd have to also factor in the mounts and such.

The layman block is near useless and most the PvP tools seem centered around caster guilds.
Those being snares and walls that block people in rooms.
Unless you are a knight you can at most hope to block people in a room for 1-2 seconds regardless of size.
Anything over that is a rare bonus.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Mim
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Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Mim » 03 Jul 2020 17:53

Amberlee wrote:
03 Jul 2020 16:43
Unless you are a knight you can at most hope to block people in a room for 1-2 seconds regardless of size.
Anything over that is a rare bonus.
True that.
I increased block to max with mercenary skill.
It can not be maxed to sup guru, but a bit more than normal.
Still, it doesnt cut much.
I used to block the orc camp mage from running south into the camp, and after a few blocks he escaped me.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

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Mavros
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Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Mavros » 03 Jul 2020 18:31

It is very easy to escape PvP. One idea that I had (one that I'd like to get an opinion about from you all) is to implement something very similar to attacks of opportunity. Once you've engaged combat and you try to leave the room, the instant before you leave the other person gets one attack against you. If it hits, you take twice the damage (you're turning your back away from a fight, what did you expect?). Furthermore, leaving combat would cut 50-75% of your stamina, on account of you have to exert extra effort to get yourself away from your attacker while avoiding their attacks. There would also be a small chance of a trail of blood being left in your wake, allowing you to be tracked.

Greneth
Wizard
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Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Greneth » 03 Jul 2020 19:58

Could just make Knights block global for everyone and give Knights something else.

Drazson
Rising Hero
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Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Drazson » 03 Jul 2020 20:07

Mavros wrote:
03 Jul 2020 18:31
[...]implement something very similar to attacks of opportunity[...]
Oh that's a simple idea which sounds great. It sounds like magic guilds would miss out which might be totally fine, unless they could assign cantrips or something. But that's adjustable, I like it a lot overall :)
Mavros wrote:
03 Jul 2020 18:31
[...]There would also be a small chance of a trail of blood being left in your wake, allowing you to be tracked.[...]
Ooh. That's nice. Niche, nice. Might be too scriptable to follow it, sadly.

Drazson
Rising Hero
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Joined: 24 Jan 2016 21:27

Re: What killed the PvP?

Post by Drazson » 03 Jul 2020 20:10

Greneth wrote:
03 Jul 2020 19:58
Could just make Knights block global for everyone and give Knights something else.
Block always felt like a bad skill. Of course I see the reasons. I was wondering though, maybe it makes more sense for rogue-types to block others from escaping, giving them yet another niche to be irrelevant with :D (saying this in a positive spirit towards a better rogue/ranger life for everybody)

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