Racial Rebalancing News?

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Tarlok
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Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Tarlok » 09 Dec 2020 14:44

Is there any news on racial rebalancing? I've heard this is top priority but info is scarce. I've heard rumors of conflicting plans and it would be great to hear where we are headed and perhaps provide some input if its not too late. And I'll comment on two of the plans I heard:

Reducing the racial modifiers magnitude. Reducing all races bonuses and penalties to make things much closer to humans - which sounds bland and unappealing - this seems like the 5 minute fix and hopefully we aren't headed in that direction. In this plan the best races stay best just less so.

The plan I really liked was more complex, an un-linking of racial bonuses from races, and instead putting the bonuses in clubs that players can join. I suppose a hobbit could join the fighter club and have racial bonuses on par with a goblin or dwarf which I think is balanced even if unrealistic. The only thing that would really separate the races with this plan is racial guilds and guild-acceptance, which seems fine to me.

Curious to hear others thoughts especially from the admin.

Thanks!

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Cherek
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Cherek » 10 Dec 2020 03:37

It's still a priority, but it's also one of those things that isn't "critical", so unfortunatley this project keeps getting postoned because other things get in the way. To be perfectly honest, I've mainly had time to "react" to stuff lately. There is always something that requires my attention or input, so there has not been so much time over for the big questions, like racial balance.

This is how far we (me and Arman) have gotten:

- Gorboth sent over a couple of racial balance ideas and projects that were started but never finished in the past.

- I checked the forums for old discussions about this.

- I listened to Arman's and other wizards ideas, and also other players ideas.

I put together all the ideas in a big file, together with my own ideas, and picked out four ideas that I felt were the best ones. I then wrote down all the pros and cons with each idea, and asked the rest of the admin for input. Then, the whole "the magic system is broken"-thing happened, and Arman and Cot's focus naturally shifted to that since it was more critical. So, that became the top priority for a while. And while Arman was working on that, my RL got very busy (it always is this time of year due to the nature of my business), so the racial balance project has been on hold since then.

I've pretty much come to a conclusion on which idea I think is the best one (Arman was fine with either of the four ideas), however, I feel it needs to be fleshed out more before it's ready to be presented to the public. I do plan to present it and let people provide feedback, but, not until I have all the details on paper.

So.... that's basically where we stand on that.

Saimon
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Saimon » 12 Dec 2020 01:29

Cherek wrote:
10 Dec 2020 03:37
(...) Then, the whole "the magic system is broken"-thing happened, and Arman and Cot's focus naturally shifted to that since it was more critical. So, that became the top priority for a while. And while Arman was working on that, (...).
And how is this fixing broken magic progressing? Do you have any idea when it can be fixed? Should we all (fighters) return ti school and start learning spells now?

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Arman
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Arman » 12 Dec 2020 03:06

By Christmas. Just not the coming one.

We aren't going to rush out the changes to the magic system. They aren't minor, and we do need to test them properly.

And while Cherek described it as "broken" that is probably overly simplifying it... the magic system works, and overall is pretty balanced. But there are assumptions built in to the system that are based off a time when mortals were much much smaller that impacts success chance... and when i time when there was no magical resistance items or abilities and so resistance calculations are quite harsh when reducing damage when compared to armour damage mitigation.

Bottom line, it makes it hard to say combat aid for a spell = combat aid for anything else. The changes are meant to make that easier to determine, meaning that we can better balance guilds across class types.

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Cherek
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Cherek » 12 Dec 2020 06:53

Saimon wrote:
12 Dec 2020 01:29
Cherek wrote:
10 Dec 2020 03:37
(...) Then, the whole "the magic system is broken"-thing happened, and Arman and Cot's focus naturally shifted to that since it was more critical. So, that became the top priority for a while. And while Arman was working on that, (...).
And how is this fixing broken magic progressing? Do you have any idea when it can be fixed? Should we all (fighters) return ti school and start learning spells now?
Yes, I think "broken" was the wrong word. It could imply magic users have a rough time right now, and we'e going to make them much better. That was not what I meant. Arman has been working on a better system, that should work better with today's players and guilds. There was nothing critically wrong with the old one, and casters aren't doing poorly in today's Genesis. I used the word "broken" simply to reference to the discovery of some flaws in the old system in regards to today's player sizes. The old system simply did not scale well, most likely because the wizards who coded it (a long time ago) did not anticipate the range of players sizes Genesis one day would have.

This discovery lead to Arman starting development on a better system. It's just that, a better _system_, it does not have to mean casters will become better (or worse) than they are today. Some things will be different, and maybe some aspects will be less powerful, and others more powerful, but that remains to be seen, and that's also what we need to test before the new system can be rolled out.

So, if I implied casters are broken and will be fixed, and much more powerful, that's not what I meant at all.

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Skythus
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Skythus » 12 Dec 2020 09:12

Cherek wrote:
10 Dec 2020 03:37
So, if I implied casters are broken and will be fixed, and much more powerful, that's not what I meant at all.
My impression was that the change was mainly towards end-game (hahaha the grind never ends) casters, and not many would notice except the ones who were casters before the Chrome Web Store Wave was born.

edit: I'm sorry for contributing to the derailing of the thread

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Cherek
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Cherek » 12 Dec 2020 17:02

Skythus wrote:
12 Dec 2020 09:12
Cherek wrote:
10 Dec 2020 03:37
So, if I implied casters are broken and will be fixed, and much more powerful, that's not what I meant at all.
My impression was that the change was mainly towards end-game (hahaha the grind never ends) casters, and not many would notice except the ones who were casters before the Chrome Web Store Wave was born.

edit: I'm sorry for contributing to the derailing of the thread
The change to the magic system will affect all casters of all sizes. And yes, we should probably re-rail(?) this thread again, and keep more talk about the magic system in the appropriate thread for that. I think we have at least one.

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Zhar
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Zhar » 14 Dec 2020 02:35

Wouldn't the easiest way to re-balance the races be to simply make every race human equivalent in stats and races being just cosmetic flavor so anyone can play whatever they want and not look at it from the "power level" perspective?

You can adjust your stats by setting your focus in the AG.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Skythus
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Skythus » 14 Dec 2020 04:53

Zhar wrote:
14 Dec 2020 02:35
Wouldn't the easiest way to re-balance the races be to simply make every race human equivalent in stats and races being just cosmetic flavor so anyone can play whatever they want and not look at it from the "power level" perspective?
You can adjust your stats by setting your focus in the AG.
I like the idea.
I think that guilds should be the primary reason you choose your race, not stats.

If stats have to come into play then give everyone two focuses, one they can choose and one they can't.

Human - Strength - Largest starting race.
Elf - Wis - Long Lived.
Dwarf - Con - Literally unkillable.
Hobbit - Dex - Sneaky little things.
Gnome - Int - Good for nothing but Int.
Goblin - Dis - They're always stupid and attack people way stronger than them. (Goblins should be swarmers, not one man armies.)

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Redblade
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Re: Racial Rebalancing News?

Post by Redblade » 14 Dec 2020 13:34

Disclaimer: This may be derailing and maybe not at all. This is likely flames. Sorry for each.

We're all forgetting one more existing race that could do with some balance from my standpoint. It's the undead race. The kind that can do several fun things. Like can't be stunned, can't be blinded (or well, at least can cast their spells blinded, I am fairly certain most of the end-game casters would like to be able to do this too), likely can't even be poisoned (yeah, I have no information here, but that would make sense, no?)... nice perks, aren't they? Is there any sort of balancing coming for all these lovely abilities that noone else has?

Flames part (so if you're not up for it, skip the rest :) ):
One day I was just walking around and doing my thing, fighting the undead at hand, naturally expecting for my blind to work and nearly dying.
Arman wrote:
12 Dec 2020 03:06
We aren't going to rush out the changes
..., yet that change came out of nowhere and nearly cost me weeks of hard grinding. Somehow the undead race could be fixed so fast to suit the reality more.
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

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