Alignment

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Redblade
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Re: Alignment

Post by Redblade » 06 Jan 2021 13:15

Nerull wrote:
06 Jan 2021 11:04
If we went this route, we would need to prepare content in advance or risk alienating half of our playerbase.
Well now the other half is a slight alienated. :)
Nerull wrote:
06 Jan 2021 11:04
The easiest way to fix this imbalance though is to allow good-alignment to drop as slow as the evil-alignment, at the possible expense of thematic dilemmas.
It's an easy way. Doesn't mean it's a good way to go - in my eyes it isn't. You'll just alienate less of the good playerbase and totally ignore the rest.
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Nerull
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Re: Alignment

Post by Nerull » 06 Jan 2021 16:01

Redblade wrote:
06 Jan 2021 13:15
Nerull wrote:
06 Jan 2021 11:04
If we went this route, we would need to prepare content in advance or risk alienating half of our playerbase.
Well now the other half is a slight alienated. :)
Nerull wrote:
06 Jan 2021 11:04
The easiest way to fix this imbalance though is to allow good-alignment to drop as slow as the evil-alignment, at the possible expense of thematic dilemmas.
It's an easy way. Doesn't mean it's a good way to go - in my eyes it isn't. You'll just alienate less of the good playerbase and totally ignore the rest.
Yeah, it's easier, and carries way lower risk, and ensures parity benefits without needing to do larger development projects to ensure overall game content parity.

If we go the latter route, I suppose I need to hasten the development of the Yawning Portal (Inn) in waterdeep, and start doing undermountain dungeon projects. ;)

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nils
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Re: Alignment

Post by nils » 06 Jan 2021 16:17

From another post
nils wrote:
04 Oct 2019 17:19
I've always had issues with how alignment is determined in Genesis, and if it were up to me it would be elective at character creation, with possibility of changing it upon death, same as one can change race.
I can't be bothered to get all philosophical about this (pearls before swine etc). but this "simple" fix would solve a lot of our problems. Sure new ones would arise, but the way I see it alignment is in your "heart" and is an opportunity to roleplay and neccessarily limits guild choice, questing opportunities etc.

Even so, it should definitely not be a measure of who you've been mass murdering lately.
Last edited by nils on 06 Jan 2021 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Thalric
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Re: Alignment

Post by Thalric » 06 Jan 2021 17:52

nils wrote:
06 Jan 2021 16:17
From another post
nils wrote:
04 Oct 2019 17:19
I've always had issues with how alignment is determined in Genesis, and if it were up to me it would be elective at character creation, with possibility of changing it upon death, same as one can change race.
I can't be bothered to get all philosophical about this (pearls before swine etc). but this "simple" fix would solve a lot of our problems. Sure new ones would arise, but the way I see it alignment is in your "heart" and is an opportunity to roleplay and neccessarily limits guild choice, questing opportinities etc.

Even so, it should definitely not be a measure of who you've been mass murdering lately.
I totally agree..
But this isn't a fix. It is a huge project in itself, in which time nothing else is happening and it might not happen at all.

So, fixing what is in an easier way is the way to begin, and then it can get fancy later.

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Zhar
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Re: Alignment

Post by Zhar » 06 Jan 2021 21:58

While I agree that alignment in Genesis isn't really a great system and that it's easier to maintain evil align I don't really see it as being a huge issue. I mean, you can go from holy to damned and back again in a single day. People are grinding non-stop anyway, just need to grind different places for alignment.
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Kvator
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Re: Alignment

Post by Kvator » 23 Jan 2021 06:31

Zhar wrote:
06 Jan 2021 21:58
While I agree that alignment in Genesis isn't really a great system and that it's easier to maintain evil align I don't really see it as being a huge issue. I mean, you can go from holy to damned and back again in a single day. People are grinding non-stop anyway, just need to grind different places for alignment.
it's not about moving from damned to holy (although it's silly that's it is so much easier to go damned than holy)
it's about good guilds having more restritctions when it comes to exping or eq-hunt - some good guilds (Knights, Rangers, OotS) basically can't touch good stuff because of consequences -> I am not avare of any such guild on evil side.

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nils
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Re: Alignment

Post by nils » 23 Jan 2021 07:32

Thalric wrote:
06 Jan 2021 17:52
nils wrote:
06 Jan 2021 16:17
From another post
nils wrote:
04 Oct 2019 17:19
I've always had issues with how alignment is determined in Genesis, and if it were up to me it would be elective at character creation, with possibility of changing it upon death, same as one can change race.
I can't be bothered to get all philosophical about this (pearls before swine etc). but this "simple" fix would solve a lot of our problems. Sure new ones would arise, but the way I see it alignment is in your "heart" and is an opportunity to roleplay and neccessarily limits guild choice, questing opportinities etc.

Even so, it should definitely not be a measure of who you've been mass murdering lately.
I totally agree..
But this isn't a fix. It is a huge project in itself, in which time nothing else is happening and it might not happen at all.

So, fixing what is in an easier way is the way to begin, and then it can get fancy later.
Can someone please explain to me, like the child that I sometimes tend to be, how this is such a "huge" project? Logic dictates that replacing a variable value with a fixed one is very straight forward.

I can see how creating the choice-mechanics (for both existing chars and new ones) could threaten to ruin my utopian view of labour required though.

Either way, it solves many problems, if not all, relating to alignment. Well, except maybe for new chars to finish quests on both sides. What's a death to a newbie anyway, right? Doesn't need to slash skills in half, like race change does?
Last edited by nils on 23 Jan 2021 07:41, edited 1 time in total.
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nils
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Re: Alignment

Post by nils » 23 Jan 2021 07:39

Kvator wrote:
23 Jan 2021 06:31
not about moving from damned to holy (although it's silly that's it is so much easier to go damned than holy)
Is it though? Really?

I guess from a neutral and fair game design point of view it makes sense to give equal burdens to both directions of alignment mobility, but if you add a slight 'real world-perspective', it's not so silly at all.

After all, gaining trust is harder than losing it, right? It's easier to lose a close friendship than create one?

You've been a valiant and holy Knight your whole life, but then one day you chop the head off an infant in a public square, effectively ruining your reputation and damaging your honor severely (losing align quickly). Shouldn't it be harder to regain your status as a holy knight than say simply murdering an orc and call it even (gaining align quickly)?
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Cherek
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Re: Alignment

Post by Cherek » 23 Jan 2021 12:38

nils wrote:
23 Jan 2021 07:32
Can someone please explain to me, like the child that I sometimes tend to be, how this is such a "huge" project? Logic dictates that replacing a variable value with a fixed one is very straight forward.

I can see how creating the choice-mechanics (for both existing chars and new ones) could threaten to ruin my utopian view of labour required though.

Either way, it solves many problems, if not all, relating to alignment. Well, except maybe for new chars to finish quests on both sides. What's a death to a newbie anyway, right? Doesn't need to slash skills in half, like race change does?
Technically I don't think it would be a huge project. I do think it would be a pretty big aftermatch though, with with numerous issues that none of us thought of before popping up after the change. EQ decay is a good example of that. We of course tried to think of everything that could happen, but once introduced, all sorts of stuff happened, and we're still fixing stuff.

That said, the idea is interesting, but... I do worry about the aftermath. We have a lot of things that depend on align, and there will probably be a whole bunch of things not working as intended after a big change like this. And will it really make things better? I am not sure... will it?

Thalric
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Re: Alignment

Post by Thalric » 23 Jan 2021 15:47

I am sure that for a lot of semi-goodie guilds, which just cant go evil, it will make a huge difference.

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