Recruitment?

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Kjartan
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Kjartan » 01 Feb 2021 06:01

The orc dungeon is in general nice. I’m not sure if I would agree with it being a nice place to make money (there is a lot of loot, but as a inexperienced player you struggle with the logistics to carry the loot to a shop in a meaningful way (and I know I won't touch a backpack anymore for maybe forever)). With the amulet - the general idea of it is awesome. But I have no doubt that it ruined my character (being weak also while not wearing it). I ended up making a new character. I got curious and logged again in with my old character and it seems the problem was solved by getting rid off the amulet completely (but at that point I already liked my new one and didn’t want to play the old character anymore - and it’s also still only something I assume, because it’s difficult to test it directly since every fight also contains some luck; but a fight which I lost after 70(!) minutes with the amulet (but not wearing) was won after 8 minutes without having the amulet at all, so it seems suspiciously somewhat related).

The quest orbs are part of Carlsan’s quests. So I found them very early (and one gets in contact the first time with one in Tutori).

Quests on other island I have started only yesterday after I found some guide online. From the game itself I haven’t found any guidance to go elsewhere to quest (the elfish Questmaster tells me though that there are quests in other regions as well - but I knew I wouldn’t remember them till I am at the ships, and likely wouldn’t find which ship I have to take anyway (because I still have no idea which cities belong to which region etc). And since it was just like a “hey at some point you maybe want to do those look for those quests too” I didn’t feel any pressure to go there. Btw: the quests of this elf make imo a much better start for the big world, than Carlsan’s. I really enjoyed my short stay in this town (I forgot the name, but you likely know which one I mean - it’s below the orcs).

I understand that the abuse of mentoring will be frustrating. But I think maybe even more importantly: as nice as it is to have a mentor - it would be maybe even better if they aren’t necessary. So I think you should not focus on a newbie team, but instead helping the newbies in a way that they don’t even need one. Firefighters are great when a building burns - but maybe don’t let the building burn in the first place. If you wouldn’t drop new players in Sparkle but with the elves first for example. And do maybe something along the lines, that the Questmaster has an important mission for me. But before he can send me on this mission he has to make sure I wouldn't get lost immediately (by proofing to him that I find things etc, and doing his quests) I think it would make already quite some difference. Add a field of nice small mobs I can train on (or just to try equipment without risking my life) and I am at that point probably already grown up enough for the orc temple. Let the quest start at the elf - and once I get the first quest item, send me finally on the important mission he spoke at the beginning of, to bring this item to the enchanter in Sparkle - and it wouldn't be a big change in the game but a HUGE difference for the new player. Some guidance and more importantly motivation. Everything still sounds exciting. And one would explore things still with a bit guidance.

Also: for three days the only other place I would takea ship to is to Calia - and why? Because I have been there. Why Calia and not elsewhere? Because Calia was the only place Carlsan ever sent me outside of Sparkle (and I knew he wouldn’t sent me there if this region would be an absolutely No-No for me). There can’t be just friendly safe regions, totally agree, but as a noob I’m happy about any guidance where it is safe for me to go and where not. As soon as one dies somewhere instantly when entering the room (like with the giants) one doesn’t feel comfortable to just explore randomly around anymore (no criticising the giants, I’ve been somewhat warned by the map). But how would a noob know what to expect when leaving any ship? So some guidance until one knows the world a bit, would be really appreciated. Send the player in quests from one city to the next and they will know where they can go (or warn them of those regions where they shouldn’t go yet).
Last edited by Kjartan on 01 Feb 2021 18:47, edited 1 time in total.

Dan
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Dan » 01 Feb 2021 18:14

I'd suggest a helper npc then :
Carlsan : I've got an important letter I need delivered to the questmaster in solace, can you please escort my aide there.
Aide leaves east.... (waiting until you arrive) Aide leaves east,.. East... south... east... waits on ship, buys ticket goes to newports,. nw,.. Aide: Oh, btw, right northwest of here is a package delivery hub, its a grand way to get to learn the way around the world.-. Aide leaste west... ->> all way to quest master with the important message and then Aide vanishes.

Same with Minas Tirith (except if you're goblin kin or evil etc..) , kabal and so on. so instead of an npc that follows you, it waits on you following it, and vanishes if its waited for more than 30 minutes or so.

Oh and please fix orc newbie place so one can go there at least 1 mortal level more... newbies simply shouldnt have to rely on that damned amulet, its utterly bugged up when you use it as a very small player, so one shouldnt fear outgrowing the place and needing it, the amulet is for old/big players wanting to do the quest later, not for small players.

edit2:
Oh and another interesting aid request could be to send them to newbie areas to slay x amount of npcs, e.g. orcs in middle earth, camp below bree dewars/aghars in palanthas, kobolds in terel,. And let them have a companion npc go with them that could aid them or something.

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Kjartan
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Kjartan » 01 Feb 2021 19:00

This sounds absolutely great. It doesn't even have to be like for every region in the game. But I would say at least till the wanderer stage (and likely beyond that). Currently one just gets thrown into the cold water just too extreme (with Tutori being fully guided, and in Sparkle you are basically completely on your own suddenly).

Those were the things, I bothered with as a newbie. And those were also the things which would have maybe let me quit the game early, no matter if there would have been more experience, money or whatever.

Also: the whole weight system (especially when it comes to backpacks) might follow some logic, but for newbies this logic is not recognisable and it's only frustrating. Also hard to get to accept is that I have to wield and wear everything again every time I log in. It's annoying, and even more importantly: at least I can see no good reason in it, why it should be this way (can't speak for others, but I'm far better in accepting things I strongly dislike when I understand why it would be necessary). The absolutely only purpose I play a game is to have fun. Every frustration pushes me to some other fun. And while a difficult quest will be even more rewarding once it is solved - this reward doesn't happen if it's for things which aren't part of the the story (like backpack, redressing every login, etc).

Targun
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Targun » 02 Feb 2021 01:31

First of all, hello. Second of all, these were great posts, very interesting read.

Regarding annoyances with the equipment, since you asked for the reasons... One thing that affects almost all aspects of Genesis is that this project started somewhat 30 years ago. Reminiscences of that can be found in sections of extremely old code and concepts that were born when technology was nowhere near where it is today.

For example, it wasn't that long ago (mere 15 years) when only permanent items that would stay on the character after logging out were: money, gems and certain quest rewards (some of them are purely cosmetic while others have some magical properties). Every 12-24 hours we had an Armageddon. During Armageddon almost all equipment would be lost - wiped out from characters inventory. This was primarily due to server memory limitations. Today we have Armageddons (Arma in short) approx. every 2 weeks. You can check information about it if you type <date>.

Additionally, in the past when you quit the game, your character would drop all non-permanent items. As such, equipment was (and still is) typically kept by players in guild racks. Once you log off you tend to put most of the equipment back in the racks. It's certainly not true for all players and there are some exceptions, but the general rule still holds. This way members of the guild can share equipment they gathered or pick the one most suitable for what they are about to do. If you are going to fight a dragon, you may want to opt for equipment that you have specifically for that purpose (offering a lot of resistances against its breath). You may also choose not to use and eventually destroy the best armor in the game if the mobs you are about to grind on won't do enough damage to justify its use.

So as you can see wielding items, wearing armours, putting them back in guild racks or chests and picking best equipment from currently available was and to a certain extent still is your characters' everyday life. Most players have aliases that either wear specific items in the right order or use shorthands, such as:
- <wear armours>
- <wear all>
- <wield weapons>
- <wield all>
- <remove all>
and so on...

This being said, if it can be made, so that a character tries to equip items it was wearing before it logged off, it would probably be a good idea. Your posts clearly show people who start with Genesis run into completely different set of deterrents and problems than someone who has been playing for 2+ years, but that's a story for another time.

Ozriel
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Ozriel » 02 Feb 2021 03:19

Hello!

I just wanted to chime in as a new player to Genesis and give my take. I've been playing Genesis now, for a good month or so with about 12 days of playtime.

Just a brief background, I've played MUDs since 96 off and on. Of course I played multiple MMOs as well. There is one MUD that I played mainly and dabbled with others. I'm more of a hack and slash type but I don't mind doing the questing.

I tried out Genesis to check it out and see what it is since for some reason, I've never heard about it doing my entire time of playing MUDs. I have to say, Genesis brings something new with the guild system and just the overall world is great. I'm honestly hooked. The community has been great and most of the people I've met have been helpful. The options to play different roles is amazing even with the different combinations.

The money grind is understandable and I don't mind it at all. That being said, for me the only biggest drawback is the brutality system and just the experience penalty. As I stated, I am more of hack and slash type and there are days where I just want to grind and kill things. It got a little depressing when I killed and grinded for days and my experience barely moved an inch. So I would just take a few days off to recoup. The other MUD I played gave you both an option of getting experience from killing or questing and there would be no penalty. They did have a good amount of great items that you can only get through questing. Of course I don't want Genesis to go that extreme. However, if there was some way to ease up the restriction on us little guys until we get a little bigger, it would help with some of the questing. As of now, I can't kill a dragon for a quest since I'm too little. I've been questing every login I get, but even after 20-30 or so quests, my brutality moved 2-3 levels down.

The quests itself to me are fine and just basically asking every npc 'quest' or 'task' is actually entertaining. There is that exploration and discovery. To figure things out is fulfilling.

As for grouping, I've found it easy so far if I need it and there are a few wonderful people that I know would take me out hunting if I asked. Discord is also great for that.

With that being said, to the Wizards: keep up the good work! I'm sure I'll be around for the long haul as I do want to hit myth and destroy things with my axe!

FOR THE GLORY OF KALAK!

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Arman
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Arman » 02 Feb 2021 03:51

Kjartan wrote:
01 Feb 2021 19:00
This sounds absolutely great. It doesn't even have to be like for every region in the game. But I would say at least till the wanderer stage (and likely beyond that). Currently one just gets thrown into the cold water just too extreme (with Tutori being fully guided, and in Sparkle you are basically completely on your own suddenly).

Those were the things, I bothered with as a newbie. And those were also the things which would have maybe let me quit the game early, no matter if there would have been more experience, money or whatever.

Also: the whole weight system (especially when it comes to backpacks) might follow some logic, but for newbies this logic is not recognisable and it's only frustrating. Also hard to get to accept is that I have to wield and wear everything again every time I log in. It's annoying, and even more importantly: at least I can see no good reason in it, why it should be this way (can't speak for others, but I'm far better in accepting things I strongly dislike when I understand why it would be necessary). The absolutely only purpose I play a game is to have fun. Every frustration pushes me to some other fun. And while a difficult quest will be even more rewarding once it is solved - this reward doesn't happen if it's for things which aren't part of the the story (like backpack, redressing every login, etc).
You've raised some really interesting points, thanks for the feedback.

I think you are right that we do need to expand the linkages post tutorial to the rest of the game. Not just for quests, but also hunting areas like the kobolds in Terel or the dwarves west of Palanthas etc.

The weight issue is really interesting. And I guess obvious when you think about it. I wonder if it is worth enhancing the 'newbie guilds' in the Cadets and Academics to provide weight burden support? Like a powerful 'featherweight' spell for academics and maybe a 'strong back' passive ability for the Cadets that allows them to carry more than their stats normally would allow? Neither would be game breaking, but would provide new players with improved quality of life and also make those newbie guilds more attractive for smaller players?

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Kjartan
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Kjartan » 02 Feb 2021 04:41

About the weight issues:
I mean it makes sense that I can’t carry 20 armours and heavy stone hammers and what not (in that regard I’m quite surprised what I can carry all already). But about backpacks: I even understand that I can carry more with a backpack (it’s even in real life this way - regarding weight and volume as well). But I still see simply can’t understand what logic is used that I am able to carry a backpack with a specific weight, but once I put it down, I’m not able to carry it again (without me, my belongings, or the backpack having changed) - it’s even the opposite of what I would imagine (I might in real life not be able to move with some weight, but if I ran around with it, I have been always able to lift things again after I put them down). Right now to be super frankly, I believe it’s just bugged but everyone else just has adjusted to it and tries to say it’s correct (as they have been probably told once when they were little).

And with everyone using scripts - they don’t even realise that they just rob the poor newbie (if the newbie slowly sat the backpack down in the shop to slowly sell each thing from the backpack), because their script just takes everything from backpack (which exists then in the room) and sell my things too. Bad luck when the newbie had the great idea of putting his full equipment also meanwhile in the backpack (so they can take more things to sell from the backpack and also don’t want to just have their equipment spread all over the shop floor). And a newbie is left behind, naked, freezing with nothing else than an empty backpack. And before the newbie can type “cry” the big player has already left the shop (and is likely not even anymore in Sparkle).

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Zhar
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Zhar » 02 Feb 2021 19:29

With the backpack being put down and you not being able to lift it again it's the same in real life. I remember having to carry sacks that I wasn't able to lift myself but could carry them just fine (needed assistance of another person to lift it and put it on my back though).

I do think that some concerns raised here are perfectly valid and like Arman's idea about featherweight/strong back. Another great feature would be maybe limiting the maximum brute level you can have based on your size so small players wouldn't go violent almost immediately and would have some time to grow by just killing. This would let them grow and explore a bit before they're forced into questing as I know it can be frustrating.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Kjartan
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Kjartan » 02 Feb 2021 23:39

I haven't experienced it myself, yet, but maybe that's a valid point (it sounds valid).
What about being able to put something into your backpack, but not taking them out again (immediately after putting them in)? I'm absolutely honest - I gave the backpack now three times a try, and all three times I wished I hadn't done so, just within an hour later. I totally admit - maybe it's somehow my fault. I simply never know when it's safe to put something in the backpack and when not (in the meaning of later being able to retrieve those things again). While this sounds somewhat like a quest, it's one of those quests I definitely would want to skip.

Dan
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Re: Recruitment?

Post by Dan » 03 Feb 2021 05:30

Maybe make a command for directly selling all stuff in the backpack that are not keep protected.
That way you'd never need to put it down or take it off, and the money might end on the floor for the
excess weight but so be it.

So something like: sell green armours from first backpack

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