Harder hits

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Mim
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Harder hits

Post by Mim » 02 Mar 2021 12:28

"These changes will have a major effect on melee combat
by increasing the damage of normal 'white' hits and will
apply to NPC and player alike."


In a few days we will experience this.
How will it affect the game do you think?

DEX vs STR?
Fighting with two weapons?
Damage dealers vs tanks?
Healers?
Bosses/npc with stun, block, paralys? (Maybe dangerous)
Dodge/parry vs +to_hit/+to_dmg imbues?
Speed items/imbues?
Other imbues?
Melee vs magic?

This to mention a few things to speculate with or guess at.
Anyone has a guess what will be, and how the game will change?

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Mim
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Re: Harder hits

Post by Mim » 02 Mar 2021 12:42

I'm old enough to remember the major change when CON gave considerably less hp than was the case when Genesis started.
Fights were loooooong, even if the opponent NPC was not that hard. But he had a lot of hp.
I remember when an old knight, that back then was considered to be one of the biggest players, Elgarhad, fell asleep during a fight, and died. After midnight, the fight was to long, to stay awake in.

Never mind that happening, but that change pulled players back to smaller opposition for a while until you got used to it. I wonder if that might also happen this time?
Or are fights just compressed to shorter fight times?
If you really are pulled back to easier opps, that might slow down progress also, but we have to see first the 'side effects' to this major(?) change.
It will be very intresting to experience what this will lead to.

Drazson
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Re: Harder hits

Post by Drazson » 02 Mar 2021 13:56

The extra damage might mean skunking fighters destroy things even faster and incoming damage matters even less. It should depend on whether the damage they had to deal with came from a lot of small attacks that didn't matter (which might now become more numerous and more damaging) or a couple of attacks that connected and dealt a lot (which sounds like it will remain more or less equally manageable), so mostly dependent on fighters' defence/parry probably, and of course two handed skill.

I'm hopeful that we will head closer to trinity groups (tank damage heal) yet I'm not sure this change itself will force us that way. We'll see. The neon warnings on the announcement probably means we'll definitely see a shift. Fingers crossed.

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Zhar
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Re: Harder hits

Post by Zhar » 02 Mar 2021 20:41

Drazson wrote:
02 Mar 2021 13:56
The extra damage might mean skunking fighters destroy things even faster and incoming damage matters even less.
Skunk berries are good to counter some small but steady damage that comes from weaker hits. If the hits get stronger I don't think skunks will be a viable way of countering that, you'd rather have stronger burst healing or more evasion in such case.

That's just my speculation of course. I'm not privy to the details of upcoming changes.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Harder hits

Post by OgreToyBoy » 02 Mar 2021 23:51

I look forward to any new changes. Hopefully it doesn't change things to much, due to age I got harder to adapt ;)

Many areas are designed to have groups of NPCs assist on any player who dare attack them. So where 3 critters may not hurt that much, 7 can do a little damage on the unprepared. Now if damage is increased it might change the difficulty on many of these spam-areas.
Hopefully hit chance is unaffected or else even an eventual smallfry stomping grounds will be very hard for very low return, both in experience and gear/loot.

But only a few more days now. Didn't even had to wait til Christmas.

Amberlee
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Re: Harder hits

Post by Amberlee » 03 Mar 2021 00:24

I am going to sit back with my popcorn and watch the fall out.
I don't know for sure but I think this just might be a really bad idea.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Dan
Wanderer
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Re: Harder hits

Post by Dan » 03 Mar 2021 07:53

1: If you hit harder, npc's dies faster, and if you're able to keep grinding without breaks it will reduce the amount of npc's available for others to kill, hence making the current situation where there's far too few grinding spots even worse.

2: if you hit harder, but also get hit so hard you can't solo, it forces you to team up, and while teaming, the usual solo grinding areas are not viable for a team, hence you move to the bigger areas - once again becoming even more in the same spots competing about the same killing areas with even more players killing everything even faster, making absolutly nothing to kill.

So either this change forces people to team up, or it makes areas die quicker so nothing to kill, or it makes people have to standing idle for healing up - which they briefly had to do in 1998'ish changes, which was reverted due to that absolutely noone wants to play a game where you have to stand and idle to heal up every second room.

So all in all, i can't see how these changes will make the game better, it will force alot of solo players into grouping and it will force alot of people annoyed that they can't find didly crap to hit at into either quit or wait for respawns.

ofcourse there's the option for upping the respawns, which will just be upping the inflation (you kill quicker, hence you gain xp quicker, hence you grow quicker if you can find stuff to kill) then making the xp formula the same amount harder, and then we're about back to status quo, just with people being alot more fragile than today

PVP:
a good pvp fight already goes way quicker today with lives going down in less than 30 seconds, 4 myth vs 6 myth fight at cornerstone in terel I recall both teams had 1 on death door during a 15 second ogre stomp, if we up the damage significantly it will be super easy using an ogre or a few blocks to walk around 3 people and powergank random players.

Amberlee
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Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Harder hits

Post by Amberlee » 03 Mar 2021 10:12

Dan wrote:
03 Mar 2021 07:53
1: If you hit harder, npc's dies faster, and if you're able to keep grinding without breaks it will reduce the amount of npc's available for others to kill, hence making the current situation where there's far too few grinding spots even worse.

2: if you hit harder, but also get hit so hard you can't solo, it forces you to team up, and while teaming, the usual solo grinding areas are not viable for a team, hence you move to the bigger areas - once again becoming even more in the same spots competing about the same killing areas with even more players killing everything even faster, making absolutly nothing to kill.

So either this change forces people to team up, or it makes areas die quicker so nothing to kill, or it makes people have to standing idle for healing up - which they briefly had to do in 1998'ish changes, which was reverted due to that absolutely noone wants to play a game where you have to stand and idle to heal up every second room.

So all in all, i can't see how these changes will make the game better, it will force alot of solo players into grouping and it will force alot of people annoyed that they can't find didly crap to hit at into either quit or wait for respawns.

ofcourse there's the option for upping the respawns, which will just be upping the inflation (you kill quicker, hence you gain xp quicker, hence you grow quicker if you can find stuff to kill) then making the xp formula the same amount harder, and then we're about back to status quo, just with people being alot more fragile than today

PVP:
a good pvp fight already goes way quicker today with lives going down in less than 30 seconds, 4 myth vs 6 myth fight at cornerstone in terel I recall both teams had 1 on death door during a 15 second ogre stomp, if we up the damage significantly it will be super easy using an ogre or a few blocks to walk around 3 people and powergank random players.
All of this.
And loops back to my eating my popcorn and watching the world burn :P
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1515
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Harder hits

Post by Amberlee » 03 Mar 2021 10:14

As a side note.
Now imagine the effect this has on newbies and questing as a newbie.
Not to mention grinding as a newbie, which already is punishing enough.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

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Mim
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Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
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Re: Harder hits

Post by Mim » 03 Mar 2021 10:55

Some intresting points and thoughts.
I bet though, that in a few weeks people might laugh at the OP and the other speculations.
And ofc there will be effects neither of us could imagine.
Block, stun, and paralys will probably be a main concern if I can join in the speculations.

So far noone digged into stats.
Will DEX be more important again?

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