Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
Yeren
Beginner
Posts: 23
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 19:59

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Yeren » 17 Apr 2021 23:48

Thanks for this information.
I think we as players would all applaud to the 40:40:20 scheme.

Since I left BDA I must say that I saw huge disturbances in the force and my initial assessment was close to Dan’s. Now it gets more evened out.

One thing however boggles me, it comes from Armans note:
“Occupational and layman caid are based on full access to abilities... and in some cases, like with the mercenaries, they arguably don't get access up to the full caid cap available to occupational guilds... which is a deliberate design decision.”

Do I understand correctly that the design of mercenaries is such as not to achieve the CAID limit? Or do I have this wrong?

User avatar
Arman
Wizard
Posts: 693
Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Arman » 18 Apr 2021 05:18

Yeren wrote:
17 Apr 2021 23:48
Do I understand correctly that the design of mercenaries is such as not to achieve the CAID limit? Or do I have this wrong?
In the way guilds are currently assessed with caid special caps, that is technically correct. They don't use anywhere near the maximum occupational caid cap allowed for occupational guilds... having only one special, mattack... which sits around the median/below median for special attacks.

Skills don't currently count towards a caid special cap, as they aren't specials. All guilds have skill caps. The thing with mercenaries is that they get to choose their skills, so they can (and often do) stack up on combat-specific skills. A big versatility benefit, which I think most would agree makes up for not using the maximum possible caid allowable for guilds.

Rache
Wanderer
Posts: 60
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 22:31
Location: Kaiserslautern

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Rache » 19 Apr 2021 12:04

Arman wrote:
18 Apr 2021 05:18
A big versatility benefit, which I think most would agree makes up for not using the maximum possible caid allowable for guilds.
You see this in action, with mercenaries being the new "meta" guild. With the imbalanced acrobat ability, they are [anecdotally] the best tanks in the game at the moment. I don't think that anyone who truly understands how incredibly useful it is to be able to switch your skills around, use any weapons you want, etc. will genuinely complain about the power of "mattack".

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 645
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Kvator » 19 Apr 2021 13:07

Rache wrote:
19 Apr 2021 12:04
Arman wrote:
18 Apr 2021 05:18
A big versatility benefit, which I think most would agree makes up for not using the maximum possible caid allowable for guilds.
You see this in action, with mercenaries being the new "meta" guild. With the imbalanced acrobat ability, they are [anecdotally] the best tanks in the game at the moment. I don't think that anyone who truly understands how incredibly useful it is to be able to switch your skills around, use any weapons you want, etc. will genuinely complain about the power of "mattack".
If acrobat is really that useful combat-wise nowadays then I guess a thing to look should be the fact that Red Fang is the only racial guild that allow its training (no other racial give acrobat, defence nor parry).
Not only goblins have best stats atm, but it seems that they have access to the best combat abilities on racial-guild level (mount + acrobat + usefull general skills, like OP tracking - sick!)

Yeren
Beginner
Posts: 23
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 19:59

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Yeren » 19 Apr 2021 13:26

Nah, Kvat - I tested acrobat, and even setting it extremely high (like sup. professional) is pretty much worthless.

And Rache, no - mercs arent the best tanks around by a looong shot.
Plus they totally suck at pvp, I guess as a tradeoff for the versatility, which - I agree - is nice.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 645
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Kvator » 19 Apr 2021 13:31

Yeren wrote:
19 Apr 2021 13:26
Nah, Kvat - I tested acrobat, and even setting it extremely high (like sup. professional) is pretty much worthless.

And Rache, no - mercs arent the best tanks around by a looong shot.
Plus they totally suck at pvp, I guess as a tradeoff for the versatility, which - I agree - is nice.
I was just replying to a post.

Nevertheless no racial guild should have combat skills imho and it seems that Red Fang is the sole exception here :)

Rache
Wanderer
Posts: 60
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 22:31
Location: Kaiserslautern

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Rache » 19 Apr 2021 13:46

Kvator wrote:
19 Apr 2021 13:31
Nevertheless no racial guild should have combat skills imho and it seems that Red Fang is the sole exception here :)
No argument here, not sure why they originally got the skill, probably some filler? Travelers get polearm, Dunedain gets axes/tracking or hunting. Those are combat skills, aren't they? Or do they not count if they don't assist your specific argument? ;) I'm sure there are many other exceptions to your "rule".

TBH the only people I see gaining from confident acolyte acrobat are mercenaries who now have to spend fewer of their adaptation points on it. Nothing at confident acolyte is going to "break the game."

Yeren
Beginner
Posts: 23
Joined: 05 Aug 2019 19:59

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Yeren » 19 Apr 2021 15:57

Kvator wrote:
19 Apr 2021 13:31

Nevertheless no racial guild should have combat skills imho and it seems that Red Fang is the sole exception here :)
As far as I know, ALL racial guilds have combat skills with the exception of fillers like Palanthas.

User avatar
Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 1015
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Zhar » 19 Apr 2021 16:11

I guess the point Kvator was trying to make was that no racial guild offers defensive combat skills. Red Fang always had acrobat (at even higher level than now) but previously this skill was mostly unused.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 645
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Underlying cause and proposed solution to broken trust

Post by Kvator » 19 Apr 2021 16:29

Rache, Yeren - I guess that you confuse weapon skills that you can train in around 50% racials with combat skills (and acrobat is legit 'combat skill' nowadays) that can be trained only in Red Fang.

- ok after second check it seems like you can also train defence above AG level in Amazons and Thanars (sup layman in both)* and blindfighting (up to 50!) in orcs (I guess it was useful for MM's back in the day when orcs were coded for them xD) which also should be looked into imho :P

* this defence is kind of whatever from practical pov since you have access to even higher defence in EVERY occ guild (still should be removed :P)

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/