Last night did a bit of testing as if I was just a "newbie" and ran around areas that I had previously killed to see how many platinum coins I could make with just two backpacks and unencumbered. Granted I have Supreme Strength so it would be a bit less, but after cleaning out Kabal which is mostly dead, Qualinost Elves area, Kalaman and the dwarf camp I was about 300ish plats richer. I think the issue comes down to is what does someone want to spend their time doing? Running around in the game making coins, or attempted to improve their character's physical size, and experience for growth.
Nobody in this game should be broke, if you are its only because you haven't tried to make money. Fair assessment?
Help Trading
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
-
Creed
Re: Help Trading
That may be true for seconds..
But for the new players, being poor and without skills takes time to change.
They have low con, so get tired fast..
They have low str, so can't carry that much..
and
They have no idea of where people hunt and don't loot, where it is safe to go, or where the shops lie close to these areas.
I tried making a new char not long ago, though..
And although I have a lot of knowledge, I remembered the fantastic journey it is to hunt xp, coins and skill, having nothing.
Every trip to the shop is joyous, and even more so when taking the coins to the trainer.
We shouldn't cheat people for this experience.
But for the new players, being poor and without skills takes time to change.
They have low con, so get tired fast..
They have low str, so can't carry that much..
and
They have no idea of where people hunt and don't loot, where it is safe to go, or where the shops lie close to these areas.
I tried making a new char not long ago, though..
And although I have a lot of knowledge, I remembered the fantastic journey it is to hunt xp, coins and skill, having nothing.
Every trip to the shop is joyous, and even more so when taking the coins to the trainer.
We shouldn't cheat people for this experience.
Re: Help Trading
My opinion,
Most of the low players I've met seem to have a vast knowledge of the game. Not all of them, but most of them. I can't imagine they "learned" all of this, so I'm guessing some of them are returning players (hooray!) or secondary characters.
An actual newbie spends a lot of time exploring, reading, figuring out commands, waiting to recover, etc. I do a lot of exploring and I find something new every day. Maybe one day I go to this or that area just to do this or that, be it herbing or looking for something. There may be a lot of stuff in this area I don't know about, so when I have more time I go there again and look at every thing. That takes a lot of time, lots of thinking, taking notes, making hand-made maps (think A4 page and a trusty pencil). Then you find something, but you can't lift it, get it, open it, even see it. So you start thinking: does it have to do with my stats? with my skills? with my equipment? is there even anything here or is it just misleading? So you go hunt some more, carry two or three swords to sell, get 80-100 silver for them, go deposit them, give half of it for food, go back, carry more equipment, sell some more, see if you can train any skills, etc.. That takes a lot of time.
If a newbie knew exactly what/where to kill according to his/her size, and had the proper equipment, and had the proper herbs to boost this or that, and knew where the shop is, etc etc. Sure, 200-300 platinum could be made in an hour. Most newbies don't fill these prerequisites though.
That's the main difference between new players and returning/secondary players. New players don't know the game. Everything is an adventure for them, and they have to figure things out.
Figuring things out is not just thinking, it's trying to think like the wizard who coded the area. Figuring out a syntax is the hardest part of solving quests (think: not everyone who plays the game is a native english speaker, and some if not most of the people who coded the areas are either). Some of them don't make sense...
I think, regarding money, a good system would be to implement a kind of interest earning system in the banks for players below Great Adventurer or Adept. This would
only work while you are online. It would give those new players an incentive to use
these low levels to explore and get to know the areas, since money will be "growing" by itself. This could be implemented up to a daily limit too.
Another idea would be to remove the tax from the banks for newbies minimizing coins.How many copper coins can a newbie carry? He'll want to minimize those coins maybe. Oops - there goes a percentage of your hard-earned money.
But, anyhow, my point is: please don't compare the money-making capacity of an experienced player with that of a true new player. New players make A LOT of mistakes because they simply don't know. It's part of the learning curve, and part of getting to know the game. Also, the kind of player MUDs had in the 90s is not
the kind of players MUDs will be having in 2013... People are used to fast-paced games in a fast-paced life. Players in the 90s were patient. 9600 baud modems taught them patience. Typing everything themselves in a school terminal while standing up in front of it for 6-8 hours taught them the meaning of hard work. Nowadays people have a faster internet connection at home than I did back then in college, and most people (me included) have to "retrain" this attention span that one needs to play a MUD. It's just too natural to get frustrated with something that's slow-paced. Only if it keeps you interested will one be motivated enough to train oneself into it.
I think "Interesting" is a key word here, perhaps even more valuable than "challenging".
Just my 2 coppers.
-Aristos.
Most of the low players I've met seem to have a vast knowledge of the game. Not all of them, but most of them. I can't imagine they "learned" all of this, so I'm guessing some of them are returning players (hooray!) or secondary characters.
An actual newbie spends a lot of time exploring, reading, figuring out commands, waiting to recover, etc. I do a lot of exploring and I find something new every day. Maybe one day I go to this or that area just to do this or that, be it herbing or looking for something. There may be a lot of stuff in this area I don't know about, so when I have more time I go there again and look at every thing. That takes a lot of time, lots of thinking, taking notes, making hand-made maps (think A4 page and a trusty pencil). Then you find something, but you can't lift it, get it, open it, even see it. So you start thinking: does it have to do with my stats? with my skills? with my equipment? is there even anything here or is it just misleading? So you go hunt some more, carry two or three swords to sell, get 80-100 silver for them, go deposit them, give half of it for food, go back, carry more equipment, sell some more, see if you can train any skills, etc.. That takes a lot of time.
If a newbie knew exactly what/where to kill according to his/her size, and had the proper equipment, and had the proper herbs to boost this or that, and knew where the shop is, etc etc. Sure, 200-300 platinum could be made in an hour. Most newbies don't fill these prerequisites though.
That's the main difference between new players and returning/secondary players. New players don't know the game. Everything is an adventure for them, and they have to figure things out.
Figuring things out is not just thinking, it's trying to think like the wizard who coded the area. Figuring out a syntax is the hardest part of solving quests (think: not everyone who plays the game is a native english speaker, and some if not most of the people who coded the areas are either). Some of them don't make sense...
I think, regarding money, a good system would be to implement a kind of interest earning system in the banks for players below Great Adventurer or Adept. This would
only work while you are online. It would give those new players an incentive to use
these low levels to explore and get to know the areas, since money will be "growing" by itself. This could be implemented up to a daily limit too.
Another idea would be to remove the tax from the banks for newbies minimizing coins.How many copper coins can a newbie carry? He'll want to minimize those coins maybe. Oops - there goes a percentage of your hard-earned money.
But, anyhow, my point is: please don't compare the money-making capacity of an experienced player with that of a true new player. New players make A LOT of mistakes because they simply don't know. It's part of the learning curve, and part of getting to know the game. Also, the kind of player MUDs had in the 90s is not
the kind of players MUDs will be having in 2013... People are used to fast-paced games in a fast-paced life. Players in the 90s were patient. 9600 baud modems taught them patience. Typing everything themselves in a school terminal while standing up in front of it for 6-8 hours taught them the meaning of hard work. Nowadays people have a faster internet connection at home than I did back then in college, and most people (me included) have to "retrain" this attention span that one needs to play a MUD. It's just too natural to get frustrated with something that's slow-paced. Only if it keeps you interested will one be motivated enough to train oneself into it.
I think "Interesting" is a key word here, perhaps even more valuable than "challenging".
Just my 2 coppers.
-Aristos.
Re: Help Trading
I think someone posted some list of places to go in what mortal levels, I do not know if you have seen that? usually you can make ok money for skills in the same areas as your character is able to kill stuff.
It is the fluttering of moths to the flame that amuses me.
Re: Help Trading
Could be. Well, now I know my way around much better than I did when I started out, but if it wasn't for helpful players and posts, I wouldn't. It is, of course, possible, and very well doable, but it takes time to learn and put things together.Karpath wrote:I think someone posted some list of places to go in what mortal levels, I do not know if you have seen that? usually you can make ok money for skills in the same areas as your character is able to kill stuff.
I'm trying to view things from the position of a person who starts playing Genesis by logging in and exploring, and trying to make sense of the world as it is in-game.
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/