Playerkilling

[Gub]

I really think death-time-recovery should be covered by all forms of death, PvP or whatever.

Why are we limiting this to only PvP? Is there some assumption that this will be abused? Could we at least extend the recovery time for PvE? Instead of it being 1/60 (as it would be for PvP) for PvE have it be 1/90?

As a casual player I am always looking for implementations that will help keep me included in the game. I think hardcore players should always have the advantage in general, but there should be a place in Genesis for the casual user. The problem as it is now, there is a very small place for the casual user and any set backs to this user can take years to remedy. Is this a big deal? No its not, but if you are redesigning something and you have the chance to begin fitting in the casual experience, I don't see why it shouldn't be done. Unless you think that by fitting in this user, there will be abuse from the majority of the population.

By beginning to include the casual user you may start to see more players stick around. Instead of looking at Genesis as a place you only go when you have hours available to you, you see Genesis as a place you can spend 30 mins a day in. Why is this important? Because a user will be more likely to come back to a game he/she never left, when time does become available again.

[Creed]

Really, in my opinion, ask yourself. How many times have I been attacked. And then ask, of those attacks how many resulted in my death. And the finally ask yourself of those deaths how many of them was I paying attention for.

Ive been playing since '97.
And Ive been attacked perhaps 30 times, or something like it.
I don't have any exact number, but its probably around those lines.

Of those 30, I have been killed perhaps 8 or 10 times.

I am not lacking knowledge of the game, nor am I unable to figure out where I am.
But I do not like it, when my adrenaline rush.
I do not like to see 2 or 3 players, all bigger than me, attacking me.
What I see in those times, is X amount of time, hard work to get back what I will lose.

I simply panic, which is my number 1 reason to hate pfighting.
In an MMORPG I have no problems with pvp, since you don't lose anything.
A moment later I can run out with the people, and get back at whoever we meet.

But I also ask for it then. I run into the areas where I can and will be attacked.
I do not ask for that here.
I have never attacked anyone in Genesis, and I never never acted as a moron towards anyone.
Most of the time, my chars have even been in neutral guilds..
But for some reason or other, whatever people have found it interesting to attack me, for lame reasons.

Mostly I have been attacked for my equipment. People wanting what I had.
Then they came up with some lame excuse, of me attacking then 7 years previous, or whatever..
And that I find is totally unacceptable.
When I leave you alone, you should leave me alone.

[Makfly]

I've played Genesis for 15 years. In my entire 15 years I have been killed by another play 0 times. I have been attacked...only a handful of times...and that was only in the past 4 years. Am I magic? Am I special?

The answer is yes, and yes. But in regards to the Playerfighting question, I've done nothing miraculous. I focus on roleplay. And using words rather than actions to deal with situations. If that doesn't work, then I will simply leave when said person arrives. Or avoid them. But never once have I ended up in a situation where I was fearful.

Even when Freya attacked Windemere in the Goblin caves I was easily able to escape (something She still hasn't forgiven me for ) but it didn't require and special skill or abilities, I simply used my knowledge of the mud to avoid being killed.

Really, in my opinion, ask yourself. How many times have I been attacked. And then ask, of those attacks how many resulted in my death. And the finally ask yourself of those deaths how many of them was I paying attention for.

I think you will be surprised that the answer is when you've been paying attention, you don't die, when you are not, you do.

Windemere

Consider yourself lucky then.
I have been attacked and killed before where I didn't stand a chance, at all. So it doesn't matter if you're paying attention or not sometimes.
Granted I did get killed by a Knight + team once, where I entered a 1 exit location, which is my own fault I suppose. But other times nothing I could've done in the fight itself would've made the difference.
So yea, it's easy to run away...sometimes, depending on who you're fighting. But don't think that people that get killed are AFK or idiots necessarily.
But I do agree that it's possible to play the game for many years without engaging in much PvP, but it's not necessarily a choice you make yourself, it's just as much a choice others make, not to kill you (for whatever valid or made-up reason or without any reason at all).


I can only agree with Gub's point in that this MUD should focus more on the casual players. Some of us don't have as much time as we used to, and I think the gamers in general have shifted more towards shorter sprints and less tolerance for crap as in the past, because nowadays there are so many things vying for our attention, so many games that we can play, so many options, so the competition for gamers attention/time is much more crowded these days, than it was when Genesis was young.

[Amberlee]

Played genesis since like 95' and in PvP i've only died like 1 time, and had an accidental death by another player once aswell(never lead a team and fail mastering JBS twice in a row while all in team are AFK back in the days;))
And how many times have i been attacked?
Lost count already back in the first angmar wars around and been atleast somewhat active in every conflict after that.. And also made some personal conflicts aswell.
Survived ogre stomp traps, the good old dragon traps, being hunted by MMs, SCOP, Vamps, knights and basically every guild in the donut at some point or another.
I would have to say i agree with Windemere.. Deaths come when you dont pay attention and when you lose your cool.

Am i unkillable? Not at all.. Been too close for comfort many times


Know the places you travel, be prepared and know your enemy.
Even if it doesnt get you the upper hand in the fight it surely will save your life

[Tarax the Terrible]

Creed. I hear you about the adrenalin rush and the panic.
An unexpected jeopardy to my characters life can actually cause my hands to start shaking over the keyboard.
No other game I have played in my life has had the power to effect me in the same way.
Not just from pfighting, also from stupid deaths against npcs.

The reason I believe is that Genesis has such a high level of immersion for many of us. We are in the character totally.
So it feels like we are being attacked personally.
For me it is particularly strong because I play one character, i think multi characters break the illusion a little.

So when the char dies, you are alive (hopefully unless you have a heart attack) so you have broken the link.
This is maybe what causes people to want to take a break from playing.

All very psycho babble talk I know. But I'm sure some other feel this way too.

Over all my chars I have been pkilled 3 times I think but attacked by others around 20+.
First time (first char) I was in total shock. Person arrived I was killing that left handed axe guy outside the old glad guild one last time before bed (in a long session) someone arrived I loaded the guy up with coins to make him heavy as was the custom of glads at the time attacked and said Hi to the person. They attacked and killed me (pretty fast) a few short rooms from safety. I didn't think straight at all. Don't even think I panicked wasn't the oh no I am going to die feeling, was the WHAT!?? first time.




I'll say this tho.. Knights should expect to be attacked.
There have been many aggressive pfighters in that guild over the years and they have made the bed for the rest to lie in. If you really want to be a peaceful char you made a bad choice of guild.
Many people will probably disagree with my logic here, thinking that each char should be able make their own path and be judged by their own actions. But there is a fact that some guilds just hate each other...
With all this talk of pac-man etc I hope no one wants to force enemies to like/tolerate each other?

[Lindros]

The problem with joining an active pfighting guild, such as DA's, Neidars, Calians, Knights etc
is that while you might not have attacked people, your guildmates might have, and in the end
many people strike out at the entire guild, not just the attacking players.

I know alot of DA's got attacked cause Lindros went around and killing Rangers/Calians/Knights/Neidars back
in the day, and my response was usually to go out and kill a few more

[Amberlee]

[ Moderator - Posts removed. We have a flame section for this sort of thing, so lets stay on topic. ]

[Tarax the Terrible]

Nice work Mod.
Talking of the Flames, here is an interesting chat going on there that is related to this topic...

Tristram and I used to fight a lot.
He mailed my council trying to get me punished once for attacking him on the Holm.

Over the years the fighting moved from dislike to mutual respect then a strange sort of friendship.
So to Tristram I say good work on killing an enemy, suck it up and keep on playing.

I was surprised to see him and team of 4-5 ALL Calians the other day.
Great to see that in the game and that many Calian cowards is a force to be reckoned with.
Just hope they can settle old scores and have fun without this type of fallout.

Shame the vamps gone, time for another MM Calian war?

{cleaned up}

He feels its right to attack people when he's defending Gelan guards/Gamalus, but then
goes off whining to the AoP about harassment once he gets hunted for it.

I hope he gets back, I want to smash him badly!

Technically Lindros, Tristam is in his right to attack you when defending Gelan.. In fact he is almost obligated to.
{cleaned up}

I never argued that he had the right to defend the npc's, what did upset me was how he ran to the AoP
and cried foul when people came after him for it.

This is the Revenge scenario.
X attacks Y, X gets hunted in Revenge by Y's allies and those tagging along looking for an excuse to kill.
Pretty common.

So how long is it justified to hunt someone for???

There is a school of thought that revenge is a dish in Genesis best served Hot.
That if someone causes offence by attacking your area etc any retaliation should be immediate.
The rest starts to vary greatly from one situation to another.

That the conflict should not spill from the borders of the area in question?
And once the target has left they should not be pursued?
Or that they are fair game for a day and then should be left alone until they re-offend?
Or that if they suffer a death they are off limits for X amount of time?

Currently we all play by our own set of rules. Or those laid out by a guild policy.
And different people have different expectations what to expect from their enemies.
Hence the AoP having to be called in to mediate on the situations...


If we could spell out more defined rules and manage people expectations it might lead to a better understanding what to expect as a consequence and when to consider yourself as being unfairly harassed...

[Chanele]

You can hunt anyone for whatever reason, you can kill anyone just for fun.
Stay away from multiple kills and newbies and you'll be fine.

[Chamdin]

I agree with Lindros about the fact that if you get killed by someone big from one guild you may start to look for smaller ones just to get even..

I was on a ship,a small wanderer.Very hard to run from a ship with exit down and then up by the way.
I was sent to a meeting with Lars by a legend/myth character.It prolly took him 10 seconds to finish me off,and I am not bragging about the fact that I lasted 10 seconds..

Unfourtunately he had an encounter with two knights just a short time ahead before this episode and probably wanted to release some steam over the fact that he had to run from them.I was just unlucky to have the same mark of knighthood and was a lot easier target than the two knights that fought him.

As Rhynox said earlier,sometimes you want to be on the winning side yourself. That is probably how he felt anyway.

For huge players with a lot of experience about the realms it is easy to say Run away and pay attention and you wont be killed.
Believe me I payed attention,I saw the club pummel me and it didnt help at all I still had a meeting with Lars.