Playerkilling

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
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Rhynox
Titan
Posts: 493
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 03:48
Location: Departed from here. Meet at Genesis!

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Rhynox » 12 Mar 2010 21:00

I don't care (a lot) about pfighting. But I think there should be some consideration for people who are mostly casuals. The clan is filled with casuals who boot once per month, pick a club and a shield, and go kill somewhere. There are still neidars who haven't yet awoke after the upgrade, so they are curious and decide to adventure a bit to check what are the skills about. Active enemies will have little problem dispatching someone who took the boat to Gondor and ended in Sparkle for no apparent reason.

There should be a way to mark players who are visiting from active players. Of course, everyone knows Rhynox is around often, but you may not even know who the little dwarf is, and attack just because he is a neidar. That is wrong in many ways. Maybe a description could be added to those characters (something like "He looks dusty and with cobwebs") and take a compromise not to attack people with that description unless they attack first. The description could be added to anyone who spends away at least a couple of months and will disappear on the week they spend more than ten hours (time enough for other members of the guild to explain the situation, and for the player to check changes around).

If neither Logg nor me are more aggressive is because we have lots of neidars (Mega, Caane, Dunkelzhan, Kuri, Pacman, Moku and Torwin, for example) that spend a couple of hours per month around killing a few kargs or ogres around to remember old times and get a feeling of achievement, that they still are part of the game.

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Alorrana
Myth
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 11:23
Location: Mordor. passing gass.

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Alorrana » 12 Mar 2010 21:03

**
Last edited by Alorrana on 31 Aug 2010 13:02, edited 1 time in total.
I’m not a complete idiot. Some pieces are missing.

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gorboth
Site Admin
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Re: Playerkilling

Post by gorboth » 12 Mar 2010 21:35

I take a good deal of the responsibility for the current situation. Prior to me becoming AoP, the game had operated on a subjective standard in which playerkilling was required to involve a suitable purpose or reason, and it was up to the AoP to make the call. Over many years of this policy, I felt that a dynamic had been created in which is was an "us vs. them" mentality for players who liked to pkill. "Us" was the players who like to pkill and "them" was the Admin who ruin all the fun and lord themselves over the game.

I decided to try something new. I simplified the rules of the game a great deal, and made it very clear to everyone that I was no longer interested in policing PvP. If it was not a newbie-kill, it was up to players to police themselves. The results have been little better than what we had before, unfortunately.

I feel there are still some big problems that need to be resolved before my "hands-off" approach can truly work.

1. Players need to be given the tools to police themselves.
2. Players need to be given a game in which PvP balance is established to a more satisfactory level than it is now.
3. Players need to feel the success of the above two realities for a while, and shift their mindset via the experience of it working.

Because #1 and #2 are waiting on wizard work, I have taken it upon myself to swing the pendulum back somewhat in recent months. As was stated on the Common Board and elsewhere, certain players began to feel me intervening where I felt griefing was occurring. This lead to a certain amount of (understandable) anger and frustration on the part of players who enjoy pvp mayhem, and I felt annoyed myself that we were taking steps (I felt) backward instead of forward.

However, I do feel that until the three things above can become a reality, I will probably need to remain subjective as the need arises. For the most part, I want to stick to my "players police themselves" standards, but when gameplay becomes clearly compromised for certain individuals or groups, it remains my job to step in and facilitate where design fails us.

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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Tarax the Terrible
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
Location: UK

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 12 Mar 2010 21:52

Since it will take a while to get where we are going...
A few rules of thumb and everyone being on the same page would help.
As well as a thriving warfare system for those who want to fight to be able to find each other.
http://genesisquests.pbworks.com/
Join up and help each other with Quests :)

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Mersereau
Champion
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
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Re: Playerkilling

Post by Mersereau » 12 Mar 2010 22:42

gorboth wrote:I take a good deal of the responsibility for the current situation. Prior to me becoming AoP, the game had operated on a subjective standard in which playerkilling was required to involve a suitable purpose or reason, and it was up to the AoP to make the call. Over many years of this policy, I felt that a dynamic had been created in which is was an "us vs. them" mentality for players who liked to pkill. "Us" was the players who like to pkill and "them" was the Admin who ruin all the fun and lord themselves over the game.

I decided to try something new. I simplified the rules of the game a great deal, and made it very clear to everyone that I was no longer interested in policing PvP. If it was not a newbie-kill, it was up to players to police themselves. The results have been little better than what we had before, unfortunately.

I feel there are still some big problems that need to be resolved before my "hands-off" approach can truly work.

1. Players need to be given the tools to police themselves.
2. Players need to be given a game in which PvP balance is established to a more satisfactory level than it is now.
3. Players need to feel the success of the above two realities for a while, and shift their mindset via the experience of it working.

Because #1 and #2 are waiting on wizard work, I have taken it upon myself to swing the pendulum back somewhat in recent months. As was stated on the Common Board and elsewhere, certain players began to feel me intervening where I felt griefing was occurring. This lead to a certain amount of (understandable) anger and frustration on the part of players who enjoy pvp mayhem, and I felt annoyed myself that we were taking steps (I felt) backward instead of forward.

However, I do feel that until the three things above can become a reality, I will probably need to remain subjective as the need arises. For the most part, I want to stick to my "players police themselves" standards, but when gameplay becomes clearly compromised for certain individuals or groups, it remains my job to step in and facilitate where design fails us.

G.
In my opinion there are more people who dislike having their play interrupted constantly by the few who can't help but overuse/abuse their guild's abilities. Isn't the game better off without them rather than the griefed? If this had been considered I think the playerbase wouldn't have been effected as much as it has.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

Lindros

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Lindros » 12 Mar 2010 22:55

Mersereau wrote:
gorboth wrote:I take a good deal of the responsibility for the current situation. Prior to me becoming AoP, the game had operated on a subjective standard in which playerkilling was required to involve a suitable purpose or reason, and it was up to the AoP to make the call. Over many years of this policy, I felt that a dynamic had been created in which is was an "us vs. them" mentality for players who liked to pkill. "Us" was the players who like to pkill and "them" was the Admin who ruin all the fun and lord themselves over the game.

I decided to try something new. I simplified the rules of the game a great deal, and made it very clear to everyone that I was no longer interested in policing PvP. If it was not a newbie-kill, it was up to players to police themselves. The results have been little better than what we had before, unfortunately.

I feel there are still some big problems that need to be resolved before my "hands-off" approach can truly work.

1. Players need to be given the tools to police themselves.
2. Players need to be given a game in which PvP balance is established to a more satisfactory level than it is now.
3. Players need to feel the success of the above two realities for a while, and shift their mindset via the experience of it working.

Because #1 and #2 are waiting on wizard work, I have taken it upon myself to swing the pendulum back somewhat in recent months. As was stated on the Common Board and elsewhere, certain players began to feel me intervening where I felt griefing was occurring. This lead to a certain amount of (understandable) anger and frustration on the part of players who enjoy pvp mayhem, and I felt annoyed myself that we were taking steps (I felt) backward instead of forward.

However, I do feel that until the three things above can become a reality, I will probably need to remain subjective as the need arises. For the most part, I want to stick to my "players police themselves" standards, but when gameplay becomes clearly compromised for certain individuals or groups, it remains my job to step in and facilitate where design fails us.

G.
In my opinion there are more people who dislike having their play interrupted constantly by the few who can't help but overuse/abuse their guild's abilities. Isn't the game better off without them rather than the griefed? If this had been considered I think the playerbase wouldn't have been effected as much as it has.

And I am guessing by your logic, the people who have "abused their abilities" are Dragonarmies, Morgul Mages, Ogres and Vampires?

Chanele
Titan
Posts: 536
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Chanele » 12 Mar 2010 23:15

Seems so, which of theese have you been a member of?

Creed

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Creed » 12 Mar 2010 23:22

I don't understand why all the pfighters usually gang up on others?

Why don't you go seperate ways, and have your fun with killing eachother?
Then everyone is happy!

You get you pvp action that you so like, and the rest of us is left alone.
I can't really see what interest there is in a team of 2-3-4 pvp liking players, to go kill someone who hardly can or will defend him/herself. Whats the fun and challenge in that?

That only leaves you with a person feeling useless, and you don't have any challenge from the kill.

Lindros

Re: Playerkilling

Post by Lindros » 12 Mar 2010 23:30

Creed wrote:I don't understand why all the pfighters usually gang up on others?

Why don't you go seperate ways, and have your fun with killing eachother?
Then everyone is happy!

You get you pvp action that you so like, and the rest of us is left alone.
I can't really see what interest there is in a team of 2-3-4 pvp liking players, to go kill someone who hardly can or will defend him/herself. Whats the fun and challenge in that?

That only leaves you with a person feeling useless, and you don't have any challenge from the kill.


I seriously cannot see what the big problem is, its not like people have been hunting you daily for the last 10 years or something.

Stop being such a crybaby, so what people attacked you, just learn how to run to a safe room its not that difficult.
Its not like people are using dragon or block traps anymore, to die in the game today, you need to lose link or fuck up badly.

Its that easy.

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gorboth
Site Admin
Posts: 2317
Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
Location: Some old coffin

Re: Playerkilling

Post by gorboth » 12 Mar 2010 23:34

Creed wrote:I don't understand why all the pfighters usually gang up on others?
Actually, Lindros, I think you have an opportunity here to actually answer an interesting question. What is the typical motivation for the occasional "random" pkill? Why is this fun? How do you justify it as a reasonable and favorable aspect of gameplay for Genesis? You are perhaps an unofficial spokesperson for the pvp cause. ;-)

If you prefer to just insult people who ask the question, that is fine, of course. But, maybe answering it can provide some interesting discussion. Your choice! :-)

G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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