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Spellcasting - Breaking Concentration and Balance 
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010 07:50
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Ilrahil wrote:
I'm going to step in and hijack this briefly and ask Petros why he has made quite an effort to edit most of Lindros's posts revealing specific guild abilities yet Rhynox has been free to say much about whatever guild he wants even to go so far and say

Quote:
Pretty true, the Angmarin are really powerful with their [moderator: guild specific abilities removed]


Just wondering.


Ilrahil, feel free to flag any posts you feel are a problem. So far, two people's posts have been moderated. Interestingly enough, they are the two people you mentioned.


11 Mar 2010 21:05
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Lindros wrote:
petros wrote:
Lindros wrote:
I agree tho, I do not have an issue with a magic user spending hours to gather the right components and the right team and taking
out a major npc, but I do have issues with magic users packing damage/heal/movement control/scry/tanking abilities.

I completely agree. Good thing there are no guilds that can do all of these at the same time anymore.



Hah, you played the game recently ?

I will have to disagree.

There's 1 guild out there who have all these abilities, then 1 more guild that has all except 2.

Lindros, you're free to disagree. But I see all the abilities that each guild really has, not just what people claim they have. It's all a moot point, however, since every caster guild is being recoded at this point.


11 Mar 2010 21:07
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I have to agree with Lindros. Movement control in my opinion is not something that just keeps you in a room but for example. Giving someone heaps of copper coins can be used as movement control because it fatigues them. And multiple guilds have abilities that work on similar bases as giving copper coins to someone.... So yes 1 guild has all of those and at least one other has all but 1-2. And then the other one well just kind of sucks.


11 Mar 2010 21:09
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Let me take a moment to remind people on this forum, especially a public board like "Game - General", about what is acceptable and what is not for discussing guild abilities.

Acceptable:
I saw Guild X do this.

Unacceptable:
Guild X has this ability.

It's a very subtle difference, but one that is very important for the community moving forward. The difference is that in the first one, you are sharing your experiences and your analysis of the situation, without making declarations of fact. The second statement is a declaration of fact about a guild of which you do not belong to. It could be either a) incorrect or b) revealing something about the guild that should not be revealed.

Much of the issues in the past have to do with arguments about this type of unacceptable statement. Person A says that they have this ability, Person B says that they're lying. Whether Person B is lying or not is inconsequential because it puts people at odds with each other. This is not the kind of community that we want advance here.

Much of the last few posts contain these types of declarations that will only end up in arguments. I've left them for the sake of illustrating where this discussion would lead to if it continues.


11 Mar 2010 21:19
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petros wrote:
Lindros, you're free to disagree. But I see all the abilities that each guild really has, not just what people claim they have. It's all a moot point, however, since every caster guild is being recoded at this point.


Seing how my previous post was removed, I will re-post it edited, this note contains only information
gained through my own in game experiences over the years, they are not fact but merely "speculations"
witness reports of said abilities. I am NOT a wizard and I do NOT claim to be all knowing.

;)

Thats fine, I am sure I am not the only one doubting your statement.

I have personally witnessed/fought said guilds, and I believe that I have a pretty good
assessment of what they can inflict with their spells.


Guild X I have witnessed them cast
healing/damage/movement control/poison/ and have also experienced scryes/evade abilities
and witnessed them tank multiple foes in Mithas/Terel trolls without taking too much damage.


Guild Y
I have seen them cast damage, scry, movement control, poison and mana regen and have also
seen players of this guild take out mithas/qualinosti on their own.


11 Mar 2010 21:28
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Lindros wrote:
Guild X I have witnessed them cast
healing/damage/movement control/poison/ and have also experienced scryes/evade abilities
and witnessed them tank multiple foes in Mithas/Terel trolls without taking too much damage.


Guild Y
I have seen them cast damage, scry, movement control, poison and mana regen and have also
seen players of this guild take out mithas/qualinosti on their own.


Ok, thanks for sharing your experiences Lindros. Just to further illustrate my point from the previous post on what is acceptable or not. You say you saw someone cast scry - it's unclear how you can certainly see someone cast a spell, but you can't see what's on their screen and whether the spell is revealing scry information. You say you saw someone cast mana regen, but were you able to examine their mental levels? You also claim to have seen movement control, but as discussed before, that could simply be someone giving a heavy burden to someone and not really a guild ability. You witnessed people tanking multiple foes or taking out areas single-handedly, but without the context to whether they were using potions, certain types of eq, darkness, etc, it really doesn't put any of the abilities into context.

My point is that your statements here still lean towards the declaration of abilities that other guilds have, rather than just sharing your experiences.


11 Mar 2010 22:01
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Well don't take my huge heap of copper coins as a way to do it in game. The coins or other equipment can be dropped. The abilities I have been witness and have experienced on my person do not allow you to drop them but are indeed forms of movement control.


11 Mar 2010 22:04
petros wrote:
Lindros wrote:
Guild X I have witnessed them cast
healing/damage/movement control/poison/ and have also experienced scryes/evade abilities
and witnessed them tank multiple foes in Mithas/Terel trolls without taking too much damage.


Guild Y
I have seen them cast damage, scry, movement control, poison and mana regen and have also
seen players of this guild take out mithas/qualinosti on their own.


Ok, thanks for sharing your experiences Lindros. Just to further illustrate my point from the previous post on what is acceptable or not. You say you saw someone cast scry - it's unclear how you can certainly see someone cast a spell, but you can't see what's on their screen and whether the spell is revealing scry information. You say you saw someone cast mana regen, but were you able to examine their mental levels? You also claim to have seen movement control, but as discussed before, that could simply be someone giving a heavy burden to someone and not really a guild ability. You witnessed people tanking multiple foes or taking out areas single-handedly, but without the context to whether they were using potions, certain types of eq, darkness, etc, it really doesn't put any of the abilities into context.

My point is that your statements here still lean towards the declaration of abilities that other guilds have, rather than just sharing your experiences.



Well if I see player A "Concentrating" and then 2 secs later I get hit by somehing that drains me of fatigue or health, its not that complicated to make the assumption player A was the one behind it, is it?

As for scryes, well when you all of a sudden get a message "You feel watched" or whatever and get it repeatedly, and then player A shows up, it repeats 100+ times, and you get to see a pattern.

When I say movement control I am not refering to giving someone a huge heap of copper, but rather player A staring at me and I feel fatigued and unable to move, unless I just fell in love with player A's dark emerald green eyes and became sleepy from that , I would assume
that player A has a way to make me tired.

While you as a wizard might be looking for the context, of herbs/potions and what-not used when someone tanks an entire area without
having to stop, to me that shows that the player is real powerful, if he has to prepare for 2 hours to make it so, thats beyond my knowledge/experience, but to me that doesnt really matter. If they with preparations can take out an area that I could not take out in 5-6hours, they can do it 2,5hours with the preparations+killing time, it still makes me think they are powerful.


And I am sure most mortals would agree, potion/herb etc usage might play a factor when wizards deem something balance/unbalanced, but from a mortal perspective, being able to kill an entire area in 2,5 hours that takes someone of equal size in a none magic guild 5hours, still gives you a pretty good perception of how powerful the caster is compared to a melee guild.


I by no means tried to make a declaration of what any other guild had or not, I just found your first reply to my note amusing, as from my point of view it was untrue.


11 Mar 2010 22:31
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Lindros wrote:
While you as a wizard might be looking for the context, of herbs/potions and what-not used when someone tanks an entire area without
having to stop, to me that shows that the player is real powerful, if he has to prepare for 2 hours to make it so, thats beyond my knowledge/experience, but to me that doesnt really matter. If they with preparations can take out an area that I could not take out in 5-6hours, they can do it 2,5hours with the preparations+killing time, it still makes me think they are powerful.


And I am sure most mortals would agree, potion/herb etc usage might play a factor when wizards deem something balance/unbalanced, but from a mortal perspective, being able to kill an entire area in 2,5 hours that takes someone of equal size in a none magic guild 5hours, still gives you a pretty good perception of how powerful the caster is compared to a melee guild.

So what you're saying is that if a spellcaster prepares for 2.5 hours, kill for 2.5 hours for a total of 5 hours, and do the same thing that a melee guild does in 5 hours, that is not acceptable, even though they ultimately spend the same amount of time to get the same experience?


11 Mar 2010 22:43
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What he said was it is not acceptable for a Caster to do it (prep and killing) in 2.5 hours what would take him 5. So he is indicating it takes them half the time it takes him.

Sometimes it's a bit hard to as a first language english speaker to get exactly what a second or third language english speaker is really trying to say as they sometimes have slight grammatical errors which change context.

Being a second language teacher I am used to seeing this and can pretty easily pick it up. I've been an English as a Second Language teacher so again I'm used to it.

Windemere


11 Mar 2010 22:48
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