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Bring Back "scary" Dragonfear! 

Time to bring back Paralyzing Dragon Fear?
Yes - Restore it as it was before. 25%  25%  [ 5 ]
Maybe - How about a more limited version. 30%  30%  [ 6 ]
No - Never! 20%  20%  [ 4 ]
Don't care. 25%  25%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 20

Bring Back "scary" Dragonfear! 
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Myth
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
Posts: 1331
Location: UK
Global block has arrived. Knights got their block back. Casters have lotsa nasties, Ogres stomping around etc.
Isn't it time that the Dragon Armies got Dragon fear with chance to Paralyze back?
Who really gets scared by a small drop in defensive skills?

Also it is pretty much a completely different crop of players in the Dragon Armies now than those who (use/abused) dfear traps in the past.
You want DA's facing knights with only a limited imitation of their block?

The "wild" dragons in Krynn can still do it, why should theirs be "tame"?
What do you say?

Or maybe Even if it was limited to the war plains?
Even Neidar's have war boars stunning there.

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19 Mar 2010 13:57
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Titan

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 03:48
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Dragonfear still exists and has an effect. However, in order to paralyze someone big you need really huge dragons. The blue one in Kalaman can paralyze champions (I remember I would not bounce him at champion because he could paralyze me from time to time). A rising hero or hero can get paralyzed for a couple of minutes in front of that dragon.

Also, dragons now are able to attack you too, they spit elementals and can rip you out as well. Effects are stacked too.

However, dragonarmy dragons can't match that size. Right now I am surely as big as an ancient dragon (which used to be the biggest one). I am sure an adult dragon can paralyze veterans or below nowadays. This would require either updating the dragonfear (making, for example, heroes or titans getting paralyzed when facing a young dragon), making the dragons much bigger (and therefore mana taxed in a different way) or changing the formula for discipline (at least in the case of dragons).

I am not against having it updated, though, but with the current inflation, you would need a dragon bigger than the blue one in Kalaman, probably bigger than the yeti, to have a chance at paralyzing a myth.


19 Mar 2010 14:16
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Myth
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I know dfear is still an effect.
But Paralyzing chance was removed as a possibility for DA dragons, quite some years ago now.
One dragon (even the generals) would not be a huge threat but 6 would even if young, which is what was happening in the past.

Their dragons have other benefits these days but if blocking is alive and well why not revive the dragons to their past glory.

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19 Mar 2010 14:20
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Titan

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 03:48
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Location: Departed from here. Meet at Genesis!
I remember entering the roundabout on a past Easters with Dionysos, Hisssss and someone else, all with their dragons there, two ancients and one adult. Got myself paralyzed immediately. Fortunately they were fighting the Easter rabbit and didn't pay attention at me :)

However, I didn't know it would stack. Six dragons in a room, right now, would make you a much worse fighter, enough to get damage at 3x or 4x times you would normally take. If you are also paralyzed, you would die immediately. So, the dragons would have to give up their current effect in order to get paralyzing stacking back...


19 Mar 2010 14:27
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Myth
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Think your damage figures are way off and even generals don't get ancient dragons to serve them.
Most DA's I have seen together in recent times is 2.

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19 Mar 2010 14:33
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Titan

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 03:48
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I notice a difference in the damage I take when I am fighting in a room with more than two dragons (for example, when trying to conquer areas from the dragonarmies there are rooms with adult dragons, just get the big team with two officers to hunt you there, and then wait for them to call each his own dragon).

And that was the point, they would need to really upgrade the current dragons, or bring ancients back. However, these ancients must be really huge, as the blue one in Kalaman can paralyze champions but mature legends and above are safe. The black dragon in Terel would likely be able to paralyze a legend, but not sure if it is big enough to paralyze a myth (had Terel run on Krynnish dragonfear rules, I mean). And those dragons would be limted to the General only (as ancients were in the past, from what I remember).


19 Mar 2010 14:37
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So, you would find it "fair" to give a guild the ability to make other people worse at defending themselves, because their enemy guild has an ability there now is available to everyone?
I can't see the fairness in that.
And I believe the dragons will still paralyze people, if there are enough of them.
That there are not enough players, shouldn't be the issue for game balance.


19 Mar 2010 15:14
Myth
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
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Location: UK
Urmmm. The dragon armies dragons and wild ones already have the ability to make their enemies worse at defending themselves.
Rose knights have the immunity to it, so if you were a Rose knight you could be forgiven for not noticing.
But the realms don't have many Rose Knights. Check your skills when you are next in the company of a krynnish dragon.

Only a "wild" dragons fear can paralyze.
The player dragons stopped paralyzing around the same time Knights Block was removed.

Hence the suggestion to return it since the Knights block was returned.
It could be possible to give them back real dfear instead of global block.

Dfear vs knight block was considered balanced before.
I think both were removed because the crop of players at the time were going nuts killing/ganking each other.

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19 Mar 2010 15:30
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 01:25
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Dragonfear then was removed because back then it caused paralyzation (you couldnt move and you couldnt fight back). Back then - In effect it blocked all exits, reduced your defensive capabilities and prevented you from doing anything (own abilities, items, potions, herbs) in order to circumvent this. Moreover it could be setup and the aggressors could wait at anyone location with these dragons for whoever came by. At the time (it has changed later) it was impossible for anyone coming from south Calia (including the Calian warriors) to reach Gelan / the docks etc without passing the roundabout.

What followed was these "dragon-traps" of people waiting at the RB for any number of Calians coming from the south, or any goodies coming from the west (docking to visit Bubba) and killing them.

I think the era of the traps ended with Boron (AoB at the time) telling the users it was not intentional. When it continued, one day he came down, deleted the dragons in place and removed the dragonfear. This I recall all being prior to Goldberrys wish that all non-move abilities be removed.

Maybe someone with more insight of the complaints of then can correct me, but I think what really bothered people was feeling absolutely powerless to influence the situation:

1. the traps could be set beforehand
2. you would pass a trap eventually
3. passing a trap all you could do was type commands that returned "You are too paralyzed by dragon fear" and then die.

Paralyzation is a very massive thing to consider. No player ability today that I know off combines the effect of "full exit non move" and "no combat/spells etc".

From my perspective (I know others might say they had it coming or I'm wrong) It effectively shut down the Calian guild for a very long time, (I was the only Calian logging on a few months after) and by the time the guild was recovering (people started logging on again or someone joined) the general player decline made it impossible to really recover from this.

Not saying I don't think the evil melee guilds can have something to replace block in pvp, absolutely they can, and certainly it could be DAs getting something based on their dragons - I am just very hesitant to the idea of area paralyzation (adding then de-buffing abilities).

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19 Mar 2010 16:34
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Champion

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36
Posts: 585
Tarax the Terrible wrote:
Urmmm. The dragon armies dragons and wild ones already have the ability to make their enemies worse at defending themselves.
Rose knights have the immunity to it, so if you were a Rose knight you could be forgiven for not noticing.
But the realms don't have many Rose Knights. Check your skills when you are next in the company of a krynnish dragon.

Only a "wild" dragons fear can paralyze.
The player dragons stopped paralyzing around the same time Knights Block was removed.

Hence the suggestion to return it since the Knights block was returned.
It could be possible to give them back real dfear instead of global block.

Dfear vs knight block was considered balanced before.
I think both were removed because the crop of players at the time were going nuts killing/ganking each other.

But it's not like the equation is Dragonfear vs Knight Block. It's Dragonparalyzes vs everyone, and Knight block vs everyone. So if Knights block is like this new block, only they can train it higher, then it's not so clear cut that paralyzes should be reintroduced in it's old form.
It's no good trying to balance 1 guild against 1 other guild, since all the domains in the game overlap, so every guild (ability) have to be balanced against everyone elses guild (ability).

Still, if the dragon paralyzes would not stack with the trainable block but is still pretty much the same, then sure, give back the Dragonarmies their way of blocking people.

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19 Mar 2010 16:39
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