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Best Boss Fights 
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
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Location: Some old coffin
So ... I'd love to hear from people which are their favorite "boss" npcs to fight in the game, and why. Perhaps follow if you wish with some suggestions for what could make for fun future design for npcs which are seen as "boss battles."

G.

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24 Mar 2010 20:27
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Titan
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Joined: 05 Mar 2010 01:05
Posts: 520
My personal preference was always something that required a "team." Not 2-3 players, but an actual team, and not something that some guilds could cast one spell and render the thing ineffective or basically solo it if it didn't have 1 player tanking.

Secondly, the treasure has to be worth it for the team. If you are going to gather 5-6 people, no one is going to want to kill it because it only has one knife that is worth wielding and nothing else.

If the NPC has some different abilities than a straight fight it's normally fun as well.

I realize there has to be some weight between risk and reward, but if the chance of failure is certain death it's not really appealing to me.

Jadestone Doll, Ashburz, Gaerhir -before the NPC and weapon inflation got out of hand- and Emyn Aren trolls -before some idiots started proctecting all of Ithilien- are examples of well coded bosses to me. Calian palace raids are fun, but far inbetween and really the krougs aren't much of a threat other than killing a few guards.

Dragons used to be fun, but most aren't really that big, don't have a whole lot of treasure and that monks can't fight them have become boring.

I miss the old days where a Keep raid garnered anywhere from 5-10 people. Nowadays the Knights are either so damn greedy or the NPC isn't much of a danger I can't recall the last time I was involved in one.

I will say NPCs with poisons aren't that much fun anymore though. Finding people to cleanse these days is a pain in the ass.

Give me a good boss fight to a playerfight anyday.

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24 Mar 2010 23:47
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1354
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
Speaking of finding people to cleanse.
I dont get it why guilds are so insanely picky and have so long trial(apprentice) periods nowdays.
We dont really have the playerbase to support that sort of playstyle anymore..

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25 Mar 2010 02:32
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Titan

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 03:48
Posts: 493
Location: Departed from here. Meet at Genesis!
Oh, this will be fun. Note that this comes from a big neidar, so it may be quite different for other sizes and guilds. May contain some information about the NPCs, feel free to mod. Also, I will only talk about myths, some may not even be considered bosses.

  • Ashburz: I once fought him for an hour with good equipment (but without a blood skull club). He managed to drop me to hurt once, and I managed to drop him to very hurt. However, I was sleepy and had to leave. Two big neidars have problems with him since his healing is pretty insane (we kept him unconscious with steel clubs but he could still heal as soon as he recovered a little bit of mana). Fighting him alone is boring, but in a team with someone who does damage is pretty easy. He doesn't attack the smaller in the team anymore, so a lot of risk was removed from him. Also, his stun appears to either be very weak or be broken altogether. I believe if orcs in Moria walked, they could increase the difficulty for Ashburz. Also, making him target the smallest in team again and fixing his stun.
  • Burzum: Now that is a pretty tough battle. The fact that teams are damaged gives an extra difficulty (for example, with calians but without enough damage to bring him down). Burzum himself is sissy, but the battle is pretty long and you have a penalty if you reenter. However, we don't kill him that often since he only has a pike. I think he is powerful enough, but he could boot with something other than a pike (maybe an evil-only sword, but not an evil-only halberd).
  • Barash-gund: He isn't that complex, but hits really hard. Nothing special, though. However, if he has equipment on him (especially his bloody club) he is really, really, really hard. Another of the myths that a neidar alone will never beat, but you don't need a big team with you, just someone disciplinated enough to assist. I think you could make him blocker to add some more risk.
  • Yeti: Can tank him without too many problems, but need a team to do the damage before he starts ripping me off. With Torwin (neidar legend) it can take a good while, sometimes 15 minutes or more. With a bigger team, or with someone else, he goes down fast. His healing isn't as powerful as Ashburz', and he can't heal while stunned (contrary to Ashburz), but if he uses it three or four times in a row... The dragons attacking are a nice touch. He is a death trap, though, so I would prefer if people not experienced enough (those who would not dare attack him) could not enter his room at all (like hearing roars and not daring enter the room).
  • Fael-thas: No neidar can take him down alone. With another we can kill him in minutes as long as I am not the one tanking. He blocks, heals and uses magic, making him a pretty good foe, but he is really weak physically and goes down fast with a few good hits. I think he could call a couple of aurak guards to make the battle tougher.
  • Verminaard: A team of two big neidars may take him down with specific equipment, herbs and luck (Ember makes the battle really tough). However, we usually need a healer. Verminaard has infernal dexterity and heals really fast, so it is a pretty good challenge. I think this battle is tougher for neidars than for other guilds, though, since we barely hit Verminaard at all. Also, if he could actually use Nightbringer's power, the battle would be much more complex. If he is not supposed to, he should stop saying the keyword. With deep-blue armour and jet sword it becomes impossible for a couple of neidars.
  • Death knight: It is really random. Sometimes I end at somewhat hurt, sometimes at barely alive. He sometimes blocks, which is how I like my NPCs. If he had his stun fixed (there are messages but you don't actually get stunned) ithe battle could be much more interesting.
  • Mergula: This is probably the only boss that actually requires some thinking. Before he was upgraded the vampires killed him every day (he was upgraded a couple of days after Xar and I discovered we could kill him). However, with a good team (at least three neidar stunners, or a few calians and some rangers) he goes down. He could be made even harder if he attacked a random piece of equipment instead of aiming at shields first. The battle requires precision (with his mental powers, calians go down faster than me tanking without armours) and some self sacrifice, but he can be killed. I am kind of disappointed with his sword, doesn't have the killer-must-take-it restriction, and doesn't seem to be at all special.
  • Thorr-kan: He goes down really fast. Can solo him, and if not for his healing, I could take him down faster than a Terel troll. In fact, he is too easy for having the best axe in Genesis, but since the axe is so rare it isn't that bad.
  • Blue dragon of Kalaman: A pretty tough battle, but not that hard. It is the biggest krynnish dragon (first though was that he was Skie), but even if she puts a good battle, dragons are sissies (as Tarax mentioned before). It would be interesting if after a while she flies away and you need to track her through the plains, but since we kill for what she has in the cave, it doesn't make too much sense.
  • Black dragon of Terel: Pretty tough battle too, but three neidars and a healer can kill him. No need to search for amulets or anything, just brute force against brute force. Nothing other than the achievement of killing probably the biggest dragon of Genesis (although the Ribos dragon should be bigger, right?).
  • Grothaur: Blocks, but big people can break it easily. Friends assist but only if team is scrambled. You can just enter the and attack him, and if he was the first in the room he won't ask his pals to assist, making the battle really easy. Could be solved by making his pals autoassist as soon as he starts fighting.
  • Zhartok: Other than his limited healing, he goes down pretty easy. Not much can be done, though, since he only has the dragon whip (which usually breaks before you can actually get its full strength).
  • Thimah: Adds magic to Zhartok, but he also goes down really fast. He should tremendously heal while wielding the complex stick, just to make the battle harder.
  • Akugla: I like this battle because it is like fighting a neidar. We can be battling for five minutes without either getting hurt. Since we both resist hits, the battle is decided by the weapon I wield. If I wield a bloody skull club, a runed mithril warhammer or another powerful one, the combat finishes in less 5-7 minutes. If I wield anything else, it can take anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes. Nice touch that you can't stop fighting him, but I believe any champion or above can take him down (besides, why the familiar can assist necromancers in that battle? :P).
  • Nazgul: It requires certain preparation, but since he is protected by the most powerful guild in Genesis, why would you want to mess with it? Rangers and clerics surely do him from time to time, but why would I try him at all? You can't fight him physically, and the longer you battle the tougher it becomes (which is usually how neidars win, by doing small damage and resisting what is thrown at us). Besides, he offers nothing for us.
  • Balrog:
    Code:
    You are physically slightly hurt and mentally in full vigour.
    The Balrog is feeling very well.
    The brown-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The brown-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The red-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The red-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The red-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The hideous cave troll is feeling very well.
    The attack from the Balrog strikes you, but the impact seems to be deadened
    so that it does not hurt you as much as it should have.
    The Balrog's giant flaming sword slashes your head. Your head is enveloped in a
    burst of unholy fire!
    The Balrog snaps his flaming whip against you, grazing your right arm.
    The Balrog grazes you with his sharply clawed foot.
    > ha
    The red-eyed cave troll swings at your body with his large scimitar, but your
    gleaming black skullplate protects you.
    The red-eyed cave troll barely scrapes your head with his large scimitar.
    As the red-eyed cave troll's blow is partially absorbed by your gleaming black
    skullplate, a cone of cold spouts from the center of its hideous mouth and
    engulfs the red-eyed cave troll with rigid frost!
    You are physically feeling rather hurt and mentally in full vigour.
    The Balrog is feeling very well.
    The brown-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The brown-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The red-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The red-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The red-eyed cave troll is feeling very well.
    The hideous cave troll is feeling very well.

    Why fight someone who hits this hard? The battle is so completely unfair that I doubt many will try him unless they have a trick like Vinz's, or in a wizday. You may as well remove it again. Besides, his loot is pretty meh.

I think nowadays the most challenging boss is Mergula: he has healing, can break items, team special, can stun, and is actually able to take on some hits (contrary to Fael-thas or Thorr-kan). I also like Akugla because of his neidar-like technique (although he offers neidars no weapon worth the trouble). I surely forgot lots, but these are the ones that first came into my mind.

Wish more bosses were really tough in the sense of resisting damage and not cheap healing). I see some guilds killing myths in a couple of minutes and wonder why can't they resist for longer. We need more 30-45-minutes battles so that everyone knows what a neidar feels ;)


25 Mar 2010 05:03
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Champion

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 06:29
Posts: 672
What trick did Vinz use? Was he actually successful in killing the balrog???

Boss fights should have some sort of AoE special, evading special, or an ability to call help. A good boss fight should be like a playerfight. There needs to be certain conditions met to make it tough. Teaming should be encouraged to make the fight easier. Big bosses should either have a ton of HP, a heal of some sort, and some sort of debuffer. Heal could come from a spell that can be interrupted, potion, or another npc healing. Debuff could be a blind, damage over time, or an ability that effects a characters offensive or defensive skill. I am a fan of finding strategies to beat bosses. I was elated when I figured out you could just run through King Koopa with just a mushroom to win the game.

On my level, I appreciate fights like Baxter, Calof, Viridian, and Nochipa. The reasons are because there's a sense of danger whenever they're engaged. Kernan, Shale, Ealanus.... zzzz boring. Any NPC boss should have a certain style and environment that gives them a distinct advantage.

Also, I'm not sure how much exp any special npc gives (if its alot or a little) but I believe it should be significant. I miss hearing DING! Or I got two bubbles on that one... it made people excited to do something.

-B


25 Mar 2010 07:32
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1354
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to go down and kill it.

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If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.


25 Mar 2010 12:49
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Yeah..

Something like a "slayer of supreme evil" title, or something..
That would be really awesome.


25 Mar 2010 12:57
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:34
Posts: 289
amberlee wrote:
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to go down and kill it.

Fixed:
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to fall down and kill it.

When we tried to fight Balrog on Hektor day (TM) even Hektor and Nikiel dropped like rocks down the stairs...
And they are huge.
So I do not think it is possible to actually go down the stairs :mrgreen:


25 Mar 2010 12:58
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 13:41
Posts: 94
Location: Not where I want to be
sharn wrote:
amberlee wrote:
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to go down and kill it.

Fixed:
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to fall down and kill it.

When we tried to fight Balrog on Hektor day (TM) even Hektor and Nikiel dropped like rocks down the stairs...
And they are huge.
So I do not think it is possible to actually go down the stairs :mrgreen:



The bigger they are, the harder they fall...... :lol:

Would mining boots help?

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25 Mar 2010 13:41
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Myth

Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Posts: 1354
Location: Kristiansund, Norway
sharn wrote:
amberlee wrote:
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to go down and kill it.

Fixed:
The balrog should actually have something that makes it worth the trouble to fall down and kill it.

When we tried to fight Balrog on Hektor day (TM) even Hektor and Nikiel dropped like rocks down the stairs...
And they are huge.
So I do not think it is possible to actually go down the stairs :mrgreen:



Sure it is.
Done it plenty times with Amber.
Didnt think it was possible to actually fall down before Calantha almost killed herself trying ;p

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The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.


25 Mar 2010 13:59
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