Disclosure policy?

Discuss general game topics or anything else that doesn't fit in the other forums
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- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Sigurd » 19 May 2010 19:33

It's a tricky issue, isn't it? On the one hand, I like exploring - getting hopelessly lost, and not having reliable maps other than those that you laboriously write yourself, and which, especially in areas like Terel, are often slightly misleading anyway, gives a feeling of size and reality. Suspending disbelief is much easier when the world just seems to go on and on, without clearly defined boundaries. I'm not sure that I like the new in-game maps... although I can see their value for places like Sparkle and the Newbie Area. On the other hand, I have always made use of the maps drawn by Carpus, which are a great crutch, but don't give too much away. I also used Pie's maps, before her site went offline.

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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Sigurd » 20 May 2010 12:03

Interesting issue, isn't it? On the one hand, I like the feeling of immensity and immersion that not having a map gives - the ability to get lost, the need to slowly map out each area by hand... and even then, particularly in Terel, the map can mislead. On the other hand, I have always made use of Carpus' maps, which help to orient the user, without giving all that much away. I seem to remember Pie's maps being a tiny bit more detailed, although they appear to have vanished along with her website.

I don't think that I like the quest-orbs very much. I will probably use them... but it's much more fun finding quests by chance by staying alert while exploring, and talking to NPCs. I do wish that more NPCs were fully functional, mind - too many just don't respond to anything (apart from 'kill,' and even then, too many just fight - which is why I'm so fond of Krougs - their targeted insults are brilliant). Kabal is probably the best area on this count - although I've heard that the code is a nightmare. Khalakhor is perhaps the most frustrating - every NPC waffles on endlessly about the Blademasters, but none of them can give any directions. I still haven't found them, almost decade after I first looked.

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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Bertram » 20 May 2010 21:54

gorboth wrote: Genesis is best experienced as a world that treats itself as a world, not a game that treats itself as a game. In the world, you learn things through interaction with people more experienced than you are. In a game, you read the rulebook, know all the possible moves beforehand, and try to set up a suitable strategy from the outset. In a world, you live a life and pursue goals that suit the role you see yourself playing. In a game, you play to win.
That is a very nice statement and to some extent it's true, in theory at least. Genesis is a game after all, a special kind of game which is played for fun. The players take some of their limited free time in real life and want to use it to get fun. Actually there's no limit for the amount of time to spent for the game but do we really need no-life players? It may all be different from the wizards point of view though. Worlds are shaped by theirs inhabitants but the wizards with their superpowers are not quite the same as the other inhabitants and they usually have quite different goals.
I am not a player who just came to genesis lately and I have enough information to explore on my own, I also have learned a lot through my personal experience, but I'm still very often disheartened by the lack of technical user-friendliness and by logical glitches which are seen as an indispensable element of the 'world' not as something which can be changed in the game to make it more fun. Saying that I still think that genesis is a great game, even better than many graphical MMO.

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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Mersereau » 21 May 2010 01:49

velicus wrote: I wanted to hear Mersereau's reasoning because I suspected it would be self-serving... don't give other people anything he chose to work for.
I _chose_ to work for?
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die."
-Mel Brooks

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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Bromen » 21 May 2010 03:32

lol Mers...

like you had a platter of information and picked what you wanted to do. lol


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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Velicus » 22 May 2010 16:26

Mersereau wrote:
velicus wrote: I wanted to hear Mersereau's reasoning because I suspected it would be self-serving... don't give other people anything he chose to work for.
I _chose_ to work for?
Perhaps I'm missing something before my time. Was there once a rule in place that said you had to explore everything on your own without assistance from others, no exceptions? If that's the case, I could empathize with your feeling of entitlement. But even then, I would point out that the game is more in need of new and returning players than feelings of entitlement.

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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Bertram » 23 May 2010 11:27

Re: Sigurd & others who prefer to work on their own

What's the matter? Don't like the quest orbs? Just ignore it, nobody tells you to use it. Don't like the maps, prefer to be lost? The same. lol. You have chosen, let the others choose.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 26 May 2010 14:36

I can see the point of giving away too much information for free removes the thrill for the explorers.
In this game knowledge is power and those with the better knowledge rightly want to protect their edge.
Things are not as dramatic as they once where ie the Icarus effect, but people with better knowledge still have a huge edge.

I would say about 10-15% of the knowledge might be considered elite stuff.
How to recover your health or mana in a matter of moments for example.

But the real power is not just the knowledge but knowing how to apply it.
The explorer types can still find a great deal of enjoyment by studying information and working out how to apply it.
Personally I always loved thinking over how to employ a juicy piece of knowledge to its best tactical advantage.

For example Caltrops.
These can be found on the Holm.
You need to be wearing an item on your hands to pick them up.
You need to be able to see to pick them up.
You can use the syntax "toss caltrop <exit>" to position a caltrop to block that exit.
Only one caltrop can be deployed per exit.
Caltrops can block many exits at once.
You can use the syntax "get caltrops" to pick up caltrops even if they are blocking an exit.
Caltrops hit for a tiny amount of damage and stop you leaving via an exit if you are not protected and fail a dexterity check.
Caltrops can hit three times then they disappear.
Foot protection like boots will prevent you from being stopped by a caltrop, however caltrops have a chance of breaking the foot protection.
Caltrops may be considered a non magical weapon, this is relevant because they can therefore be coated with poison, and being stopped by the caltrop will deliver a poison hit.

Most of that info is common knowledge these days, caltrops are also considered not very effective and ignored by most people. Rightly or wrongly.
But if it wasn't and you read it for the first time it is likely to get your devious side thinking of plots and you keen for your character to experiment with them.

So I think there is a balance to be found.

So for example publishing a full list of herbs and their effects, including which is strongest I would be fine with.
But maps showing where to find them I would reserve for guild libraries and personal records.
With the exception of having a published herb map for a newbie area to get everyone used to the concept.

For guilds I would say it is fine to give broad descriptions for what they can do, along with information on their ethos.
Saying guild X have a variety of specials, including strong damage and defensive tricks too. They are popular with the lone wolves of the game.
Guild Y are a heavily team based guild, very ineffective alone but when in a team have amazing damage and good crowd control options.
Too much information being..
Guild Z first damage special based on dex, strength and weapon damage, it is ranked "elite" in overall damage possible when combined with the best weaponry available.

Above all we need to get enough information out there so people who are experienced gamers can jump in and start playing and not feel they are totally blind. As well as better inform our existing knowledge challenged players to make it easier for them to grow and compete.
Join up and help each other with Quests :)

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Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Rhaegar » 26 May 2010 15:38

I agree with Tarax here. Putting out such info wouldn't be very detrimental to the 'elite knowledge' and could have a variety of positive effects (ie: greater interest sparked by the available knowledge, enhancing the experience, dismissing the 'blind' effect for newcomers and, in a way, abuse prevention system).
I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.


Re: Disclosure policy?

Post by Maizara » 26 May 2010 19:03

Cant remember if the new mercs have a library or not but if they do... what if someone places a bunch of herb maps and where to find thems inside it? Is is common knowledge then since the mercs is a walk up and join guild plus you can leave for little or no penalty?

Or if someone compiles a list of torques and places them within that library?

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