Re: Guilt Entry

[Postmaster]

Originally posted by Madmartigan

Hello all,

there is a risk that this might be lengthy, but here is an analysis. Also,
there was something wrong when I tried to enter the text and formatting might
be off.

There are a number of important things to bring up concerning the issue with
guilds and availability:

1) Should anyone be able to join any guild regardless?
2) Should players handle entries into guilds?
3) How do we handle roleplaying?
4) How do we handle inactivity?

Point 1) has two sides.
The first being that the easier it is for people to join guilds, the more user
friendly this game will become. Now, take a look at the goals of Gorboth, which
are that he wants more people to play this game.
If people are scared away because they can't do anything because no guilds
allow them entry, then that goal is going to fail.
To fall back on the currently open guilds is a bad way of justifying that
anyone can indeed join a guild, because it might not be the one they want to
join. So in theory all guilds should be free for all to promote game play and
more active peple in Genesis.

The second side is connected to 3) and in one way kills off the first side
above.
Like it or not, some guilds are more geared towards roleplaying. It is a simple
fact.
In most cases this roleplaying is derived from various known facts (Knights are
good, Morgul Mages are evil) and various punishments in-game, for example a
Knight of Solamnia should probably not kill hobbits in the Shire because that
is a bad thing to do, so he doesn't.
However, there are also other aspects that have a tendency to add to
roleplaying, for example language and rules of conduct that can be perceived as
good roleplaying. A goblin who zpeekz lak diz mait be guud rollpleiin even
though he has joined the Gladiators, who, together with the Mercenaries seem to
get most comments about non-roleplaying members, or rather lack of roleplaying
environment and history.

Point 2) then. Well, what is the answer to this?
I would say yes and no, again coming back to 3). For a guild like the
Gladiators or the Mercenaries, where the guild lays out the rules plain and
simple, and where the structure of the guild is fairly straightforward, there
is no real need for players handling anything. People join and they are happy
campers.
For other guilds, there is a stronger roleplaying connection which might
necessitate some kind of initiation rite. Some kind of screening from other
players that the character who wants to join is made up of the right stuff so
to say. This should be perfactly alright in order to keep the guild true to its
nature, with noble Knights and scheming evil Morgul Mages.

So why do we have this thread on the board then? Well, that is answered by 4).
If a guild has no real requirements and anyone can join then it is instant
gratification. Remember the happy campers?
If a player has to apply to join a guild and the guild has active players who
respond in a timely fashion and who conduct the interviews, tasks, and finally
approve or reject the person then there is no problem. The person applying gets
information which he can then react to. If he is told that it will take a long
time and that he has arduous work ahead of him he can prepare, but at least he
has something to work with, knowing that his application is handled at all.
If, on the other hand, a player has wandered the world and decided to join a
guild that takes applications, only to find that the people receiving them
don't play more then three times a year or not at all, then any and all intrest
is wasted. At best the person seeks out another guild, at worst he stops
playing. I think for most guilds this is the thorny issue.

So how do we solve this? Gorboth has already said that with a calculator, a
banana and a two second login, a time limit in-game is not enough and can be
circumvented in order to fake activity. By the way Gorboth, you have to explain
the banana. I don't get it.
Another approach to this idea would be to let other guild members seek the
demotion of a player if he is inactive. Who best then other guildmembers to
decide when there is a need of change? Maybe give a timelimit, if a person
doesn't respond to a demotion it kicks in. Or if enough people want someone
demoted, it kicks in.

* Is this a bad idea? No.
* Could it cause chaos within some guilds? Probably, but if it would then there
is already something wrong within those guilds concerning member conflicts and
no good way of solving them anyway.
* Would it be playable if it was implemented? Yes.
* Is it the best idea? Probably not.

Other ideas could be to allow more people, regardless of the guilds internal
structures and titles, to approve new members. The council might consist of
only two players while the guild has a base of 15-20 players that might do just
as good a job. I already know that some guilds have done something similar to
this.

To make some kind of a conclusion, roleplaying adds a level of difficulty in
solving this issue. Basically, the higher the demands on the members of a
guild, the higher the demand is for those members to be active for the guild to
prosper. This then sets the tone for how easy it is to join (in terms of
availability). If players can't handle that responsibility, what then? Does a
wizard step in? Does the guild die out?

Madmartigan's player