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Leader Purge. 
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Wizard

Joined: 03 Mar 2010 22:37
Posts: 699
Originally posted by Beregond

Greetings All,

I have thought about it a lot. Trying to figure out a non-cheatable purge
routine that allows for more active, motivated players to climb in the Guild
Hierarki and make every guild more viable and alive.

So far this is my best shot at it. And before I start, I will add the
disclaimer; no specific person, title, or guild is aimed at or had in mind when
writing this. The idea is thought to be implementable for all guilds (layman,
craft, occupational, racial).

When one decides to become a leader or higher ranking title of any guild, that
position should come with coded responsibility. This way the title becomes not
just a title (and a feeling that I have reached the top) but also a type of
extra workload.

So, if one chooses to rise to leader position, it means that one has considered
spending a X amount of extra time doing chores as a leader (coded chores in
terms of interacting with NPCs)

In a way one could say that one "pays" for the benefits, both roleplay and
code-wise, that is given to high positioned characters in the game.


In the beginning, before the idea has been completely implemented, and Wizzes
code excellently the adminstrational work for each guild, we could use already
excisting code.

To prevent idling in the inner chamber of any guild hall, the high ranking
member has to set out into the Realm and finish different 'delivery tasks',
much like the small delivery quests.

In theory, this allows a player, who is active and travelling a lot to deliver
packages 'en route', while moving about interacting with other players and
looking for hunting grounds. Thus gaining time.

So, if we have an active high ranking guild member, the task will be little
more than "running to Bubba to sharpen ones weapons", since the delivery task
could be done while travelling with others doing other things.

For an inactive high ranking guild member, the delivery task 'de facto' mean
that the player has to set out with his character to finish the tasks, or loose
his/her position as a high ranking guild member.

In a way, in my calculation, already active high ranking guild members won't
see the delivery tasks as punishment, or something unreasonable.

The inactive high ranking guild members will perceive it as a demand on them to
keep their position.

And frankly, perhaps that is what we need to 'intice' players to take care of
their position as high ranking members of a guild and keeping the guild viable
and alive. Especially for new players to the Realm.

What say ye?

Sincerely,
Beregond's player


17 May 2010 10:51
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Titan
User avatar

Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
Posts: 451
Location: Denmark
Loving it.

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Angmar! ANGMAR!! ANGMAR!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!


17 May 2010 14:19
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Apprentice

Joined: 12 May 2010 11:56
Posts: 44
I like the concept and I'm sure it would annoy guild leaders who sit around gathering dust.

Simple delivery and interaction might be too easy to dissuade them though. Perhaps it could be a task the same as the one most of us optionally completely on Wednesdays in Sparkle?


17 May 2010 15:39
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Great Adventurer

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 01:25
Posts: 198
I like the idea of trying to correct the problem with inactive guild leaders with an alternate approach. My personal opinion is that as a guildleader you play 2 times a week, with a 2 hour login each time. If you don't have council work, go do something else for the guild or have the fun you need, hanging out with other players (friends/enemies, rping, fighting (sometimes each other)) to find the motivation to play, while keeping in touch with the theme of the guild & how to play your guild.

Yet, I am wondering, isn't these tasks just an annoying deterrent? Wouldn't someone just wake up, do the task, go inactive again if they were intent on remaining in position?

And what of us who try to be active guildleaders? I spend a good deal of time managing my guild (and helping out newbies, other guilds etc).. I think I have work enough as it is :)

Maybe I am misunderstanding the concept & implementation, but the idea is very interesting, nevertheless.

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17 May 2010 15:50
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Champion

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36
Posts: 595
I agree with the focus, but I am not sure that the "delivery tours" idea is the best solution, but I can certain understand where it comes from.
Mainly that Genesis guilds have guild-leaders hanging on way too long, actually some guilds never had any change in leadership at all.
So personally I don't think it is _just_ inactive leaders that are a problem, though they are by and large the biggest problem.

I'd like to see much better leadership management systems in all guilds, and a hard time-limit (term limit?) on how long you can sit on the leadership throne.
The straight up voting system that a few guilds have aren't a bad basis, but I am sure it can be much improved on as well.

But again I certainly agree that something can be done to improve on the guild-leader systems we have in Genesis.

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17 May 2010 16:04
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Legend
User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2010 06:22
Posts: 960
A different approach could be adding a bit more automation to the main task of the council - accepting new members.
When someone applies, the council has say a week or two to acknowledge the application (thus beginning the application process), when this is done, all members of the guild receive a mail stating that xxx is now officially an applicant. If the application attempt won't be acknowledged within set time, applicant is free to join the guild as a full member just like he would be accepted by the council member, with all rights etc.
So, everyone knows what's going on, can help out etc. and in case there are some problems (like too many applicants being rejected, people starting the process but being unable to finish it etc.) there are witnesses and other proof that might be a solid basis in case when change in guild leadership is needed.

Long story short, this would work similarly to the three-way handshake system of the TCP protocol, with logs being stored on multiple servers :)

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I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.


17 May 2010 16:24
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So in short:

As a guildleader (what exactly are those benefits of being one? I fail to remember any since RoG closed) you spend your limited (most of us got limited time for Gen this days) time meeting with people and answering mails (a wide array of "issues" that usually need your attention) and then you HAVE to run some hard coded errands?

Ok - what would force anyone to be an council-member in any guild then? The sheer power to accept/decline another alt/second?

Please read Hektor's note on that (the one above) - he's got good points.


18 May 2010 09:23
Titan
User avatar

Joined: 10 Mar 2010 05:52
Posts: 451
Location: Denmark
Laurel wrote:
So in short:

As a guildleader (what exactly are those benefits of being one? I fail to remember any since RoG closed) you spend your limited (most of us got limited time for Gen this days) time meeting with people and answering mails (a wide array of "issues" that usually need your attention) and then you HAVE to run some hard coded errands?

Ok - what would force anyone to be an council-member in any guild then? The sheer power to accept/decline another alt/second?

Please read Hektor's note on that (the one above) - he's got good points.


One reason for me alone, would be RP.

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Angmar! ANGMAR!! ANGMAR!!!
Pulp Znuga! PULP!!!!


18 May 2010 10:15
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Gorboth in game wrote:
The idea you are working on is an extremely important one. However, I feel
that your current proposaly doesn't address the following type of player:

* I like my guild leader position.
* I am lazy.
* I refuse to give my guild leader position away.
* I will log in once per week to do the delivery task.
* I will do nothing else.

This is the real issue. Players can and will jump through hoops to retain
the ability to be irresponsible leaders.

G.


agreed with all the points + raising the issue of the guild leader who can only find enough time to handle mails/issues and can't find the time to run errands - in such situation an active (enough) alt/second (or a bunch of those) could grab guild leadership and run it into the ground ... :cry:


18 May 2010 14:36
Legend
User avatar

Joined: 13 May 2010 06:22
Posts: 960
That's why I think all guilds should be reworked to have:

a) automated join process (preferably with joining the trainee-like, limited branch first where players would be forced to do some guild related tasks in order to advance in ranks and gain full membership, no rack access at start etc. need to show some resolve)
b) ability to make a proposal to kick person x from the guild, all guild members would be able to cast their vote, if a member is inactive for 7+ days from the time of proposal entry he counts as having voted 'Aye', majority of votes is needed (draws are resolved in favor of the player in question)
c) automatic kicking of people who are inactive for 30+ days, unless they restrict themselves or something like that in which case this feature is disabled

All in all, an automated guild-policing system, at least until some bright future when the game population increases again.

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I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.


18 May 2010 18:12
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