Death lost the bet!

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Kiara
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Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Kiara » 14 Nov 2013 16:00

arcon wrote:I feel that this takes away the feeling of risk when you are in combat. I died yesterday and since I recovered my eq before anyone found it it didn't matter. I died and it didn't matter! Where is the feeling of risk and adventure if death is nothing? I will most likely go on a suicide run against different NPC just to see what they can do to me, so what if I die. I'll just do it when there is just 24h to arma so not even loss in eq will matter.

This a fun thing for a short time but to implement it for good I don't think is a good idea. Death needs to be felt somehow, you need to loose something or it will have absolutly no importance and if it has no importance then where is the adventure or excitement?
Yeah thats my initial feeling too... And sneaking around Minas Morgul hunting mages to mess with suddenly doesnt feel as exciting as it should. Hmm. Well we're just a few days in, but first feeling is like you say. The excitement is lost a bit...

The bad thing with the old death was that you sometimes felt you'd wanna quit the game when dying. However the good thing was also the relief and joy you felt for surviving a close call. Phew!

Maybe some type of middle ground is the best? Death that stings a little but not death that sets you back months (for a casual player). Hm.

Btw, another thing nobody mentioned so far is bot-PVP. Which is the majority of PVP currently I think? Bot-PVP as in killing botters I mean. With no death penalty thats a pretty huge boost for unattended scripting, since the risk is basically gone now, and no deaths to grind back from either. Maybe not a HUGE problem, but still. It's something to consider.

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Amorana
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Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Amorana » 14 Nov 2013 16:36

Kiara wrote:
arcon wrote:I feel that this takes away the feeling of risk when you are in combat. I died yesterday and since I recovered my eq before anyone found it it didn't matter. I died and it didn't matter! Where is the feeling of risk and adventure if death is nothing? I will most likely go on a suicide run against different NPC just to see what they can do to me, so what if I die. I'll just do it when there is just 24h to arma so not even loss in eq will matter.

This a fun thing for a short time but to implement it for good I don't think is a good idea. Death needs to be felt somehow, you need to loose something or it will have absolutly no importance and if it has no importance then where is the adventure or excitement?
Yeah thats my initial feeling too... And sneaking around Minas Morgul hunting mages to mess with suddenly doesnt feel as exciting as it should. Hmm. Well we're just a few days in, but first feeling is like you say. The excitement is lost a bit...

The bad thing with the old death was that you sometimes felt you'd wanna quit the game when dying. However the good thing was also the relief and joy you felt for surviving a close call. Phew!

Maybe some type of middle ground is the best? Death that stings a little but not death that sets you back months (for a casual player). Hm.

Btw, another thing nobody mentioned so far is bot-PVP. Which is the majority of PVP currently I think? Bot-PVP as in killing botters I mean. With no death penalty thats a pretty huge boost for unattended scripting, since the risk is basically gone now, and no deaths to grind back from either. Maybe not a HUGE problem, but still. It's something to consider.

I still like Windemere's suggestion of reduced xp gain for a number of hours. It gives a sting, especially to the types who bot. My suggestion would be though, that it would somehow need to be tied to actual combat time, and not actual time, so that people couldn't just idle it off.

Imagine if the penalty was 6 hours of 50% combat experience. Kill Irk 4 times and you take away 50% of his combat experience for 24 hours of combat. Suddenly, killing him for boting feels a lot more rewarding, doesn't it? I'd argue even more so than an xp loss that you know he'll grind back in a day or two of botting.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Windemere
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Location: Winterpeg

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Windemere » 14 Nov 2013 16:58

I also think the important and key point to this whole discussion is what spurred it.

PvP is not fun. People do not want to participate in it. That is what spurred the experiment, the lack of PvP logs. Rarely do people die PVE anyways, it is REALLY rare. Mostly it is new people learning the ropes. But how often is it that you actually are not paying enough attention to leave the room before you get killed. Or you don't flee.

With that out of the way, the second key point is that if PvP is not fun, what can we do to make it fun. I've suggested a few systems that are different than how it currently is. Perhaps PvE death should have some sort of similar penalties as well to make death more "exciting" or have it "mean something". I do not know. What I do know is that before this change dying pissed people off and made them want to take a break from playing (in many cases) or just bot/grind their way through recovery.

My ideal system would be one that encourages team-building, encourages conversation, encourages interaction. What that would look like, I do not know. There are some brilliant people who read the forums though and I think, if the moderators could or if they feel this is an okay place to do this, have a conversation about this.

As I said, I've suggested a couple of ideas that I think are feasible. In the end I hope this changes the mindset for some of "I need to grind to be the biggest so I can kill and not die" and slows the pace of the game back down a bit.

Windemere

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gurgel
Greenhorne
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 17:05
Location: Sweden (Stockholm)

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by gurgel » 14 Nov 2013 17:58

There is indeed two sides of this, it do take away the edge of hoping you can survive certain enviroments such attacks,quests etc, when the result aftwerwards can be extremely satisfying.
On the other hand it realy encourage people to try out stuff they never would have dreamed of doing.
I do like the idea of having some penalty like above notes about taking 50% of the combat experience after Death for about 24h.
Myself favour the idea of non penalty after Death. Maybe there could be a combination of this, for example...
First 15 Days in every month is a slight penalty time after Death (like 50% of combat xp and the second 15 Days is as it was a few Days ago....
It's a realy interesting topic and who knows where it will end....

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Ragni
Wanderer
Posts: 51
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 22:30

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Ragni » 14 Nov 2013 21:44

arcon wrote:I feel that this takes away the feeling of risk when you are in combat. I died yesterday and since I recovered my eq before anyone found it it didn't matter. I died and it didn't matter! Where is the feeling of risk and adventure if death is nothing? I will most likely go on a suicide run against different NPC just to see what they can do to me, so what if I die. I'll just do it when there is just 24h to arma so not even loss in eq will matter.

This a fun thing for a short time but to implement it for good I don't think is a good idea. Death needs to be felt somehow, you need to loose something or it will have absolutly no importance and if it has no importance then where is the adventure or excitement?
Have to say I completely agree with Arcon here. The best part of the game for me over the last couple of years has been the excitement felt when attempting a quest or exploring an unknown area for the first time and not being sure if I was ready for it. I would bring back the PvE exp loss as soon as possible but not the PvP exp loss. If clever players can find a way to force a PvE death from a PvP situation then good for them, it's up to other clever players to see this does not happen.

Ragni

Arcon

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Arcon » 14 Nov 2013 22:14

Maybe the solution is easier than all of this, lower death penalty to 10% but take away death recovery. 10% smaller is not a lot. And even without deathrecovery it shouldn't take long to recover but it will be felt, at least a bit.


As reward for a pkill the killer should be able to loot the lapidarium of the victim and take all the stones. That should be a decent reward?

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OgreToyBoy
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Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by OgreToyBoy » 15 Nov 2013 00:25

arcon wrote:Maybe the solution is easier than all of this, lower death penalty to 10% but take away death recovery. 10% smaller is not a lot. And even without deathrecovery it shouldn't take long to recover but it will be felt, at least a bit.


As reward for a pkill the killer should be able to loot the lapidarium of the victim and take all the stones. That should be a decent reward?
Lol, so instead 'just' a 10% hit and loose your imbues. Read that again please, how long do you think it takes to grind those last 10% at very violent+ and at the same time try and grab imbues?

Arcon

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Arcon » 15 Nov 2013 00:44

OgreToyBoy wrote:
arcon wrote:Maybe the solution is easier than all of this, lower death penalty to 10% but take away death recovery. 10% smaller is not a lot. And even without deathrecovery it shouldn't take long to recover but it will be felt, at least a bit.


As reward for a pkill the killer should be able to loot the lapidarium of the victim and take all the stones. That should be a decent reward?
Lol, so instead 'just' a 10% hit and loose your imbues. Read that again please, how long do you think it takes to grind those last 10% at very violent+ and at the same time try and grab imbues?
I guess you could say that if you are very violent then you are most likely too big anyway. ;)

Laurel

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Laurel » 15 Nov 2013 07:52

arcon wrote:I guess you could say that if you are very violent then you are most likely too big anyway. ;)
:shock: :?

sidequestion:
what would now be the goal to actually kill someone? gear?

Syrk
Rising Hero
Posts: 361
Joined: 06 Jul 2011 22:24

Re: Death lost the bet!

Post by Syrk » 16 Nov 2013 00:04

arcon wrote:As reward for a pkill the killer should be able to loot the lapidarium of the victim and take all the stones. That should be a decent reward?
I am not afraid to state this is the most stupid idea.
Loosing equipment and combat experience is nothing compared to loosing the stones.

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