Preventing unintended slaughter

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Mercade
Wizard
Posts: 62
Joined: 12 Jan 2013 18:03

Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Mercade » 15 Feb 2015 01:19

Code: Select all

Greetings,

In order to avoid the unintended slaughter of (smaller) players, a small change
has been made to the kill command.
It is now required to add an exclamation mark whenever attacking a fellow
player, but it is no longer required to enter the same command twice anymore.
So e.g. "kill round-faced human!" or "kill Somename!"

Mercade

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Amorana
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Amorana » 15 Feb 2015 04:48

Mercade wrote:

Code: Select all

Greetings,

In order to avoid the unintended slaughter of (smaller) players, a small change
has been made to the kill command.
It is now required to add an exclamation mark whenever attacking a fellow
player, but it is no longer required to enter the same command twice anymore.
So e.g. "kill round-faced human!" or "kill Somename!"

Mercade
Will this change also affect assisting? Would be good to see unintended assists go away as well.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Draugor » 15 Feb 2015 09:38

Amorana wrote:
Mercade wrote:

Code: Select all

Greetings,

In order to avoid the unintended slaughter of (smaller) players, a small change
has been made to the kill command.
It is now required to add an exclamation mark whenever attacking a fellow
player, but it is no longer required to enter the same command twice anymore.
So e.g. "kill round-faced human!" or "kill Somename!"

Mercade
Will this change also affect assisting? Would be good to see unintended assists go away as well.

You have a point, alltho if you dont help you'r teammates yer a wuss ;)

Arcon

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Arcon » 15 Feb 2015 09:52

Don't have assist triggers.

Icarus
Veteran
Posts: 244
Joined: 04 Dec 2012 20:54

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Icarus » 15 Feb 2015 12:31

Arcon wrote:Don't have assist triggers.
Here I totally agree with Arcon. If you can't trust your teammate to not attack something/someone you don't want to fight, then don't have assist triggers on the person. Simple as that.
Flee you fools!

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 2871
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Cherek » 15 Feb 2015 12:37

Amorana wrote:
Mercade wrote:

Code: Select all

Greetings,

In order to avoid the unintended slaughter of (smaller) players, a small change
has been made to the kill command.
It is now required to add an exclamation mark whenever attacking a fellow
player, but it is no longer required to enter the same command twice anymore.
So e.g. "kill round-faced human!" or "kill Somename!"

Mercade
Will this change also affect assisting? Would be good to see unintended assists go away as well.
What exactly is an "unintended assist"? If the team leader wont accidentally attack newbies, then there's nothing to assist anyway?

If you mean being in a team where the leader suddenly decides to attack another player on purpose, without talking to you about it first, then I honestly think that's up to you to solve, and pretty bad team leading. And wouldn't it just make it harder to have assist triggers in general? How will your trigger know if it's gonna use "assist" or "assist!"? Because most of the time I would assume you DO want to assist your leader on triggers when fighting other players. It's especially important assist quickly in a pfight after all.

Or is there some scenario I forget where "assist!" would be useful?

Icarus
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Posts: 244
Joined: 04 Dec 2012 20:54

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Icarus » 15 Feb 2015 14:23

Cherek wrote:
Amorana wrote:
Mercade wrote:

Code: Select all

Greetings,

In order to avoid the unintended slaughter of (smaller) players, a small change
has been made to the kill command.
It is now required to add an exclamation mark whenever attacking a fellow
player, but it is no longer required to enter the same command twice anymore.
So e.g. "kill round-faced human!" or "kill Somename!"

Mercade
Will this change also affect assisting? Would be good to see unintended assists go away as well.
What exactly is an "unintended assist"? If the team leader wont accidentally attack newbies, then there's nothing to assist anyway?

If you mean being in a team where the leader suddenly decides to attack another player on purpose, without talking to you about it first, then I honestly think that's up to you to solve, and pretty bad team leading. And wouldn't it just make it harder to have assist triggers in general? How will your trigger know if it's gonna use "assist" or "assist!"? Because most of the time I would assume you DO want to assist your leader on triggers when fighting other players. It's especially important assist quickly in a pfight after all.

Or is there some scenario I forget where "assist!" would be useful?
Only the one you have in a thread in the General topics... Botting, which means, "assist!" is pointless ;)
Flee you fools!

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Amorana
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Amorana » 15 Feb 2015 16:35

Cherek wrote:
Amorana wrote:
Mercade wrote:

Code: Select all

Greetings,

In order to avoid the unintended slaughter of (smaller) players, a small change
has been made to the kill command.
It is now required to add an exclamation mark whenever attacking a fellow
player, but it is no longer required to enter the same command twice anymore.
So e.g. "kill round-faced human!" or "kill Somename!"

Mercade
Will this change also affect assisting? Would be good to see unintended assists go away as well.
What exactly is an "unintended assist"? If the team leader wont accidentally attack newbies, then there's nothing to assist anyway?

If you mean being in a team where the leader suddenly decides to attack another player on purpose, without talking to you about it first, then I honestly think that's up to you to solve, and pretty bad team leading. And wouldn't it just make it harder to have assist triggers in general? How will your trigger know if it's gonna use "assist" or "assist!"? Because most of the time I would assume you DO want to assist your leader on triggers when fighting other players. It's especially important assist quickly in a pfight after all.

Or is there some scenario I forget where "assist!" would be useful?
Not true at all. When you are teaming with a guild who has a guild enemy and they decide to attack someone who is not your guild's enemy... it is easy to get pulled into a fight, if you do not have their intro. Even moreso if you are already in the middle of fighting mobs in a large team.

It should be a conscious and intended decision to attack another player, and this should apply to all ways of attacking.

I mean in one thread we are talking about making it harder for people to do things unattended, but in this thread we are saying it should be easy? You shouldn't be able to be ganked (or at least it should be more difficult) by a team that is half inattentive. Requiring adding the ! on assisting vs players would help.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Icarus
Veteran
Posts: 244
Joined: 04 Dec 2012 20:54

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Icarus » 15 Feb 2015 16:50

Amorana: If you can't be attentive enough to avoid assisting vs players, then I'd say "boohoo" upon you, and let you know you should pay attention. I've heard rumours you assisted (by accident) recently on a player who was attacked, but as attentive, it's possible to leave the room, request peace with the person and apologize, if unattentive enough to join in actually killing the person, well, then we're back to "you're botting, you can risk punishment", and where the punishment comes from, well, if it's mortal or immortal punishers, it's still punishment. There are multiple ways to avoid assisting on players, but the best way is to not tag along with/have assist triggers on people who are prone to attack players you do not wish to attack.
Flee you fools!

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Kitriana
Champion
Posts: 627
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:46
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Preventing unintended slaughter

Post by Kitriana » 15 Feb 2015 16:50

Amorana

I would add this point as food for thought.

Isn't creating a mechanism that prevents team members from autoassisting a PVP attack on triggers encourage botting behavior? And if so .. why would the admin want to make it easier/convenient to bot because they don't risk getting involved in a PVP attack while unattended? Shouldn't part of the risk of being unattentive be that one could end up in a PVP fight?

Whenever Kitriana teams with anyone .. she does so on condition that the leader of the team not involve her in PVP without her verbal consent. IE -- if it was with another guild.. they would tell me before hand if they intended to get into a fight with some known enemy.. or if they were at risk of being attacked. It forces me to pay attention if that character is in game and that I might have to leave the team or decide to stay in the team and assist if I chose.

In my opinion, it forces active participation. And encourages people not to bot. If one doesn't trust their team leader to respect ones wishes regarding involving oneself in PVP with certain characters ... then one shouldn't be following him/her around... and one certainly shouldn't do so unattentive.

I would not want to see this mechanism changed to prevent assisting if people do so on triggers.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

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