Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

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Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Draugor » 20 Feb 2016 16:43

Ydred wrote:
How about a softcap? Lets say... as an exampe 250 str, not sure where that stands on the immortal, supreme etc scale

250 basic str, you will get a very weakened imbuement effect, 300 or so str, its not even worth the weight of an item to wear them
Would do alot for levling out the playing field and remove the insane monopoly that some ubermyths have on the game

The problem here is then the guys who make and spend alot of cash wont. It would be far better to limit super myths in quantity and maybe quality. This would mean Irk would still buy plenty of faints and pronounced, but maybe not intenses.

Aye, he'd not buy statstones perhaps, weaponstones etc on the other hand, stats are really most usefull for smaller people imo since they dont have the stat to even wear some stuff and still be able to move

Jooli
Adventurer
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Joined: 14 Jun 2011 16:01

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Jooli » 20 Feb 2016 16:54

how is it more balanced that a veteran can double his size than a myth? That makes no sense for me. If there is issues with stats in general (for ubermyths), then that should be adressed as a separate issue. I personally think the problem with supermyths would be far better solved by introducing new content. Caps have a curious effect of killing all motivation. If my stats were capped, then what else is there to do then pvp and eq hoard?

There is a curious "fact" being recited everywhere, that the imbuements were meant to spread the difference between small and big players. I don't really see Gorboth stating that this was a major motivation at all, neither in this thread or the note about when imbues were implemented. https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... =27&t=1356 So I suspect he meant imbues were to be enjoyed by all. A statcap on imbues would not be fun for those who cannot use them. It would be like saying since X guild has X amount of sup guru skills, the player would not be able to use skill imbues, cause he already has so much skills.

Gorboths main objects were:
- Make it so players had double or triple their normal stats at all times.
This was never true. I've collected imbues really intensely for years, and only in the last months after the christmas three has this been true. And this would have faded in a few armas no matter what. I think the bigger issue is the double or triple stats.

- Make imbuements a lasting effect that you should feel you can expect to have at all times if you work hard
enough.
Why is this a problem?

- Create pvp imbalance on a regular basis.
This is of course a problem, but more related to insane statincrease on the current imbues.

Ydred
Veteran
Posts: 237
Joined: 29 Nov 2013 02:53

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Ydred » 20 Feb 2016 17:13

how is it more balanced that a veteran can double his size than a myth? That makes no sense for me. If there is issues with stats in general (for ubermyths), then that should be adressed as a separate issue. I personally think the problem with supermyths would be far better solved by introducing new content. Caps have a curious effect of killing all motivation. If my stats were capped, then what else is there to do then pvp and eq hoard?
For me this is no issue since any real new player who comes along will have to spend alot of time getting up to size. Even with these imbues making them wanderer to vet in size, they will still take alot of time to get to myth. The small growing faster means little and hurts little. Cause once they know how to get to titan in under a week they wont care about using imbues for that. If fact when I am doing a new character I do not use any imbues for wearing I use them for cash. So I can train faster. But I know what I am doing and wont be small long. Hell I would even say let small players go to karkadelt and get a free imbue that only they can use. Once every arma. A random stat imbue based on how they focus their stats. Sure it might speed me up to titan by a few hours. But not much. But for the real new players which we are seeing alot of, it would be nice since they wont get that big that fast.

Now yes, I agree I would love to see more new content that was bigger and harder. The reality is now the changes to the best xp hunting grounds have only made it harder for champ-myth growth. The ogres have had no less than 2 upgrades in last 6months. This is fine for anyone over myth. But it used to be that you could hunt ogres at champion ... now not so easy or worthwhile. This is where new content comes in. Maybe the ogres are some new content that has finally been adjusted fully. And maybe Ravenloft will be more. And Mirkwood is also being worked on. There are plenty of areas in old and new content to be developed into stuff as new content is always needed, imho. And I think it is happening. Just slowly like all in genesis.

But just as we like new content and growing, it also as is shown by other games, important to not stymie the growth of the newer ones. Somewhere in there is why I dont see the issue with small ones doubling in power from imbues but also see it bad when the biggest of the big can. Hell I bet if you gave a real new player intense str dex and con and an older person nothing. And started them on a race to myth the older player would win.

Jooli
Adventurer
Posts: 99
Joined: 14 Jun 2011 16:01

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Jooli » 20 Feb 2016 17:38

Ydred wrote:
But just as we like new content and growing, it also as is shown by other games, important to not stymie the growth of the newer ones. Somewhere in there is why I dont see the issue with small ones doubling in power from imbues but also see it bad when the biggest of the big can. Hell I bet if you gave a real new player intense str dex and con and an older person nothing. And started them on a race to myth the older player would win.
If you have a scale from 0 to supermyth, a fixed statincrease would mean MUCH more to a player closer to zero, than to the person close to supermyth. The problem is that it seems to be percentagebased imo.

Val
Apprentice
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Val » 20 Feb 2016 18:28

Well, imbues better than faint is not my level, but I can imagine they are too powerful, I can imagine the idea needs some fixing. Limitting the imbue drop could be ok, some other ways of limiting (max number of slots, etc) - why not.

BUT collecting stones for mounths and/or spending on them thousands of plats, an then breaking this imbue in few hours - it sucks and noone convinces me it does not.

Now we could see Irk upset because of his broken imbued items, some may say - good this uber myth was nerfed etc. But imagine a newbe starting now, collecting stones.. lets say after half a year or a year of playing he is happy to imbue his first item.. and it breaks in one day! Fun! Enjoy!

Another issue is that the change really hurts solo playing. As a gladiator I believe the guild is targetted for solo chalenge and for a change in some team-exping I really enjoyed going solo for an adventure and trying out my skills and power here and there. Now I just cannot watch my imbues going down.. It looks like I need to stick to the exp train with non-imbued tank, and imbued damage-makers. Is it the model of playing the administration promotes?

Freya
Beginner
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Joined: 16 Dec 2014 22:07

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Freya » 21 Feb 2016 23:21

Is it just me who feel the only real "issue" here were the stat imbues? Which made big chars into god-mode running around with 300-400 stats.

I don't think all armours items should break like it currently does, it's smarter to limit imbues to say wear a max of 3 at a time.
Personally I've gathered stones for 5-6 years ,having saved stones for a rainy day,but now there's no point of using it if they break in a day or two.

So cap the stat imbues, or make it so the bigger you are the less bonus you get, a myth should get a low boost, say you a faint boost from a pronounced, or pronounced boost from a intense, or even less if need be.
And as stated previously, all these changes seem to have been made too quickly, the only winner I can see currently are the calians who never take hits.

Amberlee
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Amberlee » 22 Feb 2016 01:33

Freya wrote:Is it just me who feel the only real "issue" here were the stat imbues? Which made big chars into god-mode running around with 300-400 stats.

I don't think all armours items should break like it currently does, it's smarter to limit imbues to say wear a max of 3 at a time.
Personally I've gathered stones for 5-6 years ,having saved stones for a rainy day,but now there's no point of using it if they break in a day or two.

So cap the stat imbues, or make it so the bigger you are the less bonus you get, a myth should get a low boost, say you a faint boost from a pronounced, or pronounced boost from a intense, or even less if need be.
And as stated previously, all these changes seem to have been made too quickly, the only winner I can see currently are the calians who never take hits.

Yeah i quite agree.
Makes no sense to waste time collecting intense imbues now.
Sure gloves and boots should be breakable, but amulets and rings?
No.
Might as well just remove imbues.

In fact, please remove all imbues that enhances stats, haste, extra damage and extra AC..
Kinda breaks the game..
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Draugor » 22 Feb 2016 06:30

I vote for a cap of stat imbues, either that or the complete removal of them, the effects are way to crazy for melee guilds :P

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Mayobe
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Mayobe » 22 Feb 2016 19:07

Jooli wrote:
Ydred wrote:
But just as we like new content and growing, it also as is shown by other games, important to not stymie the growth of the newer ones. Somewhere in there is why I dont see the issue with small ones doubling in power from imbues but also see it bad when the biggest of the big can. Hell I bet if you gave a real new player intense str dex and con and an older person nothing. And started them on a race to myth the older player would win.
If you have a scale from 0 to supermyth, a fixed statincrease would mean MUCH more to a player closer to zero, than to the person close to supermyth. The problem is that it seems to be percentagebased imo.
Mmmmm... I think the issue may be that the cost of dealing with Karkadelt is (confusingly) severely prohibitive to newbies. Unless you get an item you actually want with an imbue you actually want it's better to just list it in AH and spend the profits on growing. I mean seriously, a nullstone costs 25pc and an imbue costs 1000pc. To someone who's in the position of needing to advance a ton of skills that's like a great big flashing neon sign saying, "This is for end-game players."

Meanwhile most faints I've picked up have sold for 40-120 platinum. That's helped a lot with progression, but now I'm waiting to see what the effects of the change are. It wasn't too hard to pick up imbues before just by farming the orc camp, but now they may be fewer and farther between. That may drive up the prices, but I don't know how it's going to balance out yet. Balancing that against the really frustrating problem of brutality means that I can't just run around slaughtering every npc that passes the stat compare test because my brute will get even more unmanageable...

Eh... I don't know. I'm waiting to see what happens.

Meanwhile, if imbues actually are aimed at lower-levels, maybe Karkadelt should run a sliding-scale based on level.

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gorboth
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by gorboth » 22 Feb 2016 20:53

I've been hashing some ideas with the Admin. These are just ideas, and not something you should get too excited about yet. But I thought I'd throw them out there in the spirit of involving the community for reflection and discussion.

What if, when you *crafted* an imbuement on a item:
  • The item becomes soulbound - you cannot drop it or give it away.
  • The item becomes permanant and loads on you when you log in without need for a droproom.
  • The item becomes unbreakable.
  • A timer starts, and five days later, the item melts and is lost.
Obviously, this would mean people could use their less-prized (i.e. "crappy") imbuement stones to simply create saving, non-breaking gear whenever they get something they want. Yep! That is part of the idea. Another aspect of the idea is that if you've saved up for a long time and finally want to put that glittering stone to use, it will not be something you will see destroyed by an unlucky bit of breakage just a few hours later.

I think it might solve a lot of different issues, but it might also create some other problems.

Thoughts?
G.
Mmmmmm ... pie ...

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