Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

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morgzaash
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by morgzaash » 26 Feb 2016 20:05

Cherek wrote:
morgzaash wrote: - new imbue system looks good in theory : AH shows that it does not work ? I mean : no way everyone keeps all for him/herself now.
I think we should give it a little more time. As with any new system it will probably take some time for people to figure out how to best benefit from it.
I do follow Joolie adwise and do a run on mostly not grinded areas. Yes, I do gather few times more imbues then most of peaople I know but still :
- imbues were only to get stones , wear/wield nothing
- lost a lot of time
- get no exp (not grinding areas mostly means that NPC are worthless killing)
- found more NPC that couldn't be killed then i expect !
Well, on one thing you are right : we will see. I stay at my point however : tree was the main reason that makes system extremly unbalanced.
And cuts in system goes too far.

Anyway, what else can we do ? We'll wait.

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gorboth
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by gorboth » 26 Feb 2016 20:49

morgzaash wrote:Well, when they are not on "farming" areas and shows on "unused/unkilled/less popular ones" looks like the imbues are on spoons, skirts, tunics, sandals etc. Items that are not worthy of use, bonus from imbue too small. Double-fail. Just my opinion.
This is a very interesting point which I did not anticipate. You are correct that now many more imbues than before will appear on npcs who have gear that is more pedestrian, resulting in many imbuements on wieldable or wearable items that would never be chosen by players for normal use.

This is much more how I would have wanted the system to be from the start. When I imagined how imbuements would work, the whole story was that the spirits of these trapped souls have been released into very random places in the world to embed wherever they might into various objects. This certainly shouldn't mean always zooming toward the most heavily grinded places in Genesis. With the new spawning system, imbuements are distributed much more evenly throughout the game, which is much more thematic to the story of imbuements, much more interesting (in my opinion), and something which I think creates fun surprises. I also recognize that it makes grinding less interesting, which some people are sad to see.

I want to let this play out for a while to see how the game adapts to the new system. We may eventually decide it doesn't feel like good design, and go to some new system or revert to the old. Time (and experience) will tell!

G.
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Cherek
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Cherek » 27 Feb 2016 01:40

morgzaash wrote: Well, on one thing you are right : we will see. I stay at my point however : tree was the main reason that makes system extremly unbalanced.
And cuts in system goes too far.
Yes the tree introduced more glittering stones for a period, but it was definitely not the main reason for imbue imbalance. Everything people won during the yule lottery was logged, and the chance of winning glittering stones was very low. I however underestimated how popular the tree would become since during a month over 5.000(!) spins were made, so even with a tiny chance of winning a glittering, more people than I had anticipated ended up winning them. However, the numbers are still not even close to making a big splash in the world of imbues long term.

Yes, it has made a difference the last few months, but it would have been a temporary effect, and the world suffered from imbue-overflow long before the yule tree appeared. Level 3 imbues became a bit more common lately because of the tree, but even without that, people stacking up on a lot of level 1 and 2 imbues also has a very big effect. And let's not forget that intense imbues were far from unheard of before the tree. Yes, not many people had glittering stones so they could imbue intense things themselves before, but intense imbues are not THAT uncommon out in the wild, and the grinding teams and imbue harvesters of the world still found and used such imbues too.

So yeah, my (over)enthusiasm in making the yule tree a wonderful gift for the players are to blame a bit for making something very powerful a bit more powerful, but it would be way too easy to blame it all on that. The data simply does not support that at all. Sorry Morg, but there's more to this. If it's only the tree we could simply just have waited it out, let people use up their glittering stones, and then not give out such stones in events in the future, and things would had normalized on its own, but I don't think it's that easy.

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Mayobe
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Mayobe » 27 Feb 2016 05:56

Were there any changes to Karkadelt?

AH is a tomb, lol.

Sarn Ford's still no less popular though.

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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by morgzaash » 27 Feb 2016 13:43

Cherek wrote:Yes, it has made a difference the last few months, but it would have been a temporary effect, and the world suffered from imbue-overflow long before the yule tree appeared. Level 3 imbues became a bit more common lately because of the tree, but even without that, people stacking up on a lot of level 1 and 2 imbues also has a very big effect. And let's not forget that intense imbues were far from unheard of before the tree. Yes, not many people had glittering stones so they could imbue intense things themselves before, but intense imbues are not THAT uncommon out in the wild, and the grinding teams and imbue harvesters of the world still found and used such imbues too.
Tree, however was a wonderfull idea. Remember that to make glittering stone you'll need 81 stones from faint items. Not quite easy.
I agree that ordinary stone become more common, but not because system changes, but some players decided to harvest a lot more.
Including me. I started imbue fun just half year ago and there was a days when I killed 1.5k NPC makeing almost no progress. To harvest.
There was some players like me and a lot of smaller players who harvest imbues to sell them on AH or directly to some players (like me, I payed for a lot of stones
and items with imbues outside AH). However even with spending hundreds plats and dozens of hours harvesting I motly made faint imbues.
Pron on weapons, because dmg stones were in few forms (air,elemental,death etc.) and only 2 weapons to imbue.

I think that was quite hard to collect imbue to player who do not harvest imbues (that almost always mean lower exp, thats hard to harvest on bigger NPCs)
and this all points at one "problem" :
Players who have time to play will be bigger and will have better equipment and better imbues then players who are in game for 2-3 hours/day or less.
Will imbue-cut or statcap will make game better ? I don't think so.
You'll just get bigger players out of game. Will there be more smaller ones ? Not in my opinion.

Not to be "bad" I'll share my ideas :
- limit imbues on single person
- keep one or 2 slots dmg-free
- watch double-login to avoid 1-2 small harvest imbues to bigger one
- keep imbue info to admin only to prevent looking wizards where good imbues are
- before making BIG steps make sure there was nothing like tree that unbalnace system even a bit
- make more profitable 2-4 teams with one big and 1-3 smaller players or find other way to bigger ones to help small ones
(more fun for small ones, better ingame xperience may help them both rise and stal in community)
- add some monday-task that requires cooperation small-big player

Most of us is for fun. Imbues , tree got something from hazard, makes you want just a little more.
I GOT UNUSUAL ITEMS!
What is that ? Air-spells (5pc) or something good ? The moment after getting it from corpse and checking what I got is excitment. Fun.
You can't rewerse game 20 years back where champion was biggest level. Where after hitting champ some people cheered and ...
plays less. The goal was to hit champion. After reaching it there was no fun for some to play more.
To get to myth is hard but add 2-3 more mortal levels and I bet there will be players who'll be back to try to reach it.

My point is : add goals to reach not limit/punish active ones.
And keep in mind that new players could have problems with brut level/quests. Its another thing to re-think.
But I guess not here and not now.

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Cherek
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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Cherek » 27 Feb 2016 14:08

Thanks for sharing your ideas Morg, I agree with some of them, but not all. (It wouldn't be fun if we all agreed!:).

Just wanted to comment on one thing quickly:
morgzaash wrote: - keep imbue info to admin only to prevent looking wizards where good imbues are
Imbue info has been admin only for a couple of years just for that reason. So any such cheats that may haven taken place in the past are not possible anymore, and has not been for a few years.

Laurel

Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Laurel » 27 Feb 2016 23:18

Cherek wrote:Imbue info has been admin only for a couple of years just for that reason. So any such cheats that may haven taken place in the past are not possible anymore, and has not been for a few years.
... or you were unable to track it down, so:
Cherek wrote:I agree with some of them, but not all. (It wouldn't be fun if we all agreed!:).

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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Val » 28 Feb 2016 02:36

Well, the system is dead. You have killed some really nice feature with recent changes. Those who care still hope you will fix it (me included). One thing for sure - in my opinion it would be MUCH better if we had this discussion BEFORE implementing such important changes.

Now to my opinions about the subject:

1. As I understand you have recently targetted stat imbues overpowered and downgraded them. This sounds reasonable.

2. Lowering drop rate/changing distribution areas of imbues etc - could be reasonable, ofc this will need some fixes (guild npcs/not accessible/trap areas etc). I believe this can be worked out. I also agree we will need some time to see how it works.

3. Time of potential using of crafted imbues. That needs fixing ASAP in my opinion.
Even before all the changes - work, time and/or money needed to collect stones and imbue one item with faint imbue was tremendous. Months. Market value of 9 faint stones needed for crafting a single imbue hesitated between 1000-2000 plats. Thats alot. I personally never imbued things just for one arma, since 11 days was too short for me for such an effort. 2 armas (about 20-22 days) was fine. These days, when imbue drops become very rare, the time and effort to collect stones for single imbue is dramattically bigger. Returning non-breakable slots to be able to safely craft there an imbue for reasonable time looks like simpliest and more obvious solution. Making the item with crafted imbue non-breakable sounds not bad as well. BUT proposed 5 days seems definitely too short. Perhaps a bit less than 20 days could be acceptable.. perhaps even one arma (not sure, seeing how rare imbues are now) but no, I do not think anyone would care to imbue anything for 5 days. This would remain dead as it is now.

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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Ody » 28 Feb 2016 03:34

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Re: Imbuement and Armour Changes ...

Post by Mersereau » 28 Feb 2016 08:08

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