The Scouring of the Forum

[Kitriana]

Actually -- I addressed my issues with imbue system with the admins as well. I just did it in a more constructive way than yelling at them. I prefer to have normal dialogue with admin than thinking they are the villain trying to ruin the game for us. It is simply untrue. There are better ways to have a conversation with someone than throwing accusations. And I think you can spend time creating constructive dialogue in respectful tones -- that will serve to accomplish your goals in a much more meaningful way.

But I know this change was not just about imbues. The tone and behavior of some has been going on for a long time. People think that being flippant, shouting, throwing accusations, yelling, deriding other people's opinions and ideas -- are going to create an environment for positive change? It just doesn't work. Will you get people's attention? Sure .. but maybe not the kind of attention that will create meaningful discussions leading to positive change. You will only create resentment, anger, frustration, and in the end apathy towards your position. And lets face it .. we All lose in that scenario. I don't doubt that many of these opinions encased in negative tones and accusations actually have valid ideas. But they are so surrounded with toxicity .. its hard, if not impossible, to listen to them.

[Ydred]

I follow you. I have been back for about 2months. I think before my recent posts I posted almost 2yrs ago. And barely then.

deriding other people's opinions and ideas

I disagree here as it is merely a result of disagreeing with another. Eventually someones ideas are derided or dismissed. Including my own at times. For me it is never personal no matter how others express it. The only time that would be, for me, would be if they choose to send me a PM and attack me directly. Which so far, non have ever done.

For me this will always seem like the protest zones we now have in the US. Speak here 'only' so we can keep the message contained. But as I told G, I have no power here. It is all in your court. And if it gets too authoritarian, I think it will only lead to Eden again. We shall see where it goes.

[Cherek]

I encourage all those who typically remain silent to express their support of this change so that the voices of what is typically the loud minority don't drown us out.

Interestingly enough, this loud minority is why the imbues are still being worked on. And I hardly think the admin would be looking to fix it if we were actually the minority. So I think this misrepresents the function we served in holding the admin to account. Are we loud, sure. And now you silent ones might be louder. Which might run you afoul of the admin too. It is a very arbitrary line which we walk upon now.

No Ydred... the louder you scream the less we listen. I actually stopped even reading what you and some others had to say after a while in the other threads, since I just grew tired of being insulted. Actually it's a lot more likely that type of feedback has the opposite effect, making those who get yelled at even LESS likely to do things the way you want it. So no. The louder you are, and the more rude you are, the less likely you'll get what you want. Kitriana said it very well in the note above, and it's very true in the wiz world too.

Thankfully there were other people who sent some actual good, respectful feedback too, which always is welcome. That we listen to, share, and discuss very seriously.

[Ydred]

No Ydred... the louder you scream the less we listen.

Perhaps you. But others saw what I posted thought the same. They might be more savy than I at gaining your ear, but they knew they werent alone. I dont mind the heat. I was right and the nerfs are still being rolled back. And probably will be for a time I think.

[Val]

Ehh since I became really active here recently, I'll add my 2cc on this issue as well..

I'd just say - Guys, relax. Moderating forums is pretty standard practice. I believe the administration wants just avoid insults, swears, dropping **** at each other, etc. Being civil won't hurt anyone. Give em a chance.

[Laurel]

So to sum up things as they look based on admin actions:
you won't listen to critical feedback given in a polite manner (Jooli, Morr) - you dismiss it in a polite manner
you won't listen to critical feedback given in an inpolite manner (me, Amber) - you dismiss it by moderating
you do listen to and care about whiners and brownnosers and even plain trolls - you feed them with your attention
you won't even let us ourselves govern what we want to leave in this forum, or not - the reasons for that are totally out of common sense

I'm sad for where you landed the game now.
I wish you all the best on your journey onwards.
Please delete my account here.

[Cherek]

Laurel: I have said what I have to say on this, you feel completely different. That's fine, you have the right to disagree.

Anyway, it's sad that you do not want to stay in a more moderated forum, but it's your choice. Your user is now deleted.

[Etanukar]

I despise censorship in all of its forms. One must have a thick skin to live in this world; bereft of honeycombs and morning hugs by fellow workers.

There is something of a rule in my project work called "No Ugly Babies". This works both ways and is meant to curtail mean-spirited or abusive banter. Example:
A person shoves a picture under your nose and exclaims "Isn't she gorgeous!?" Quite frankly it is the most hideous parasite to ever ooze its way out of a womb. But being human, you do not state this because it would crush the person's world.

Now, back to why it matters: If someone brings about an idea, in this case Admin or Playerbase, and it is utterly crushed to the absurdity (from both sides) that this turn has taken, neither side is likely to share that one idea that saves the company or creates millions due to the last time they spoke, they were squashed like a bug.

Remove censorship, and everyone for the love of the Lord, GROW UP. This is a game afterall, people.

[gorboth]

Fascinating example, Etanukar. I agree with the "No Ugly Babies" rule, but will trust the Thread-O-Bot to enforce it.

Overwhelming evidence has been presented, loudly and proudly, that people will not police themselves effectively.

G.