Re: Bonk deleted
Posted: 18 Dec 2016 12:39
I think the plateau idea will achieve very little when it comes to size differences. All is does is protect people from death if they chose not to grow after they reach a new mortal level. Which is an interesting idea, but will it really make PVP much more fun, or make it more balanced?
How many truly new players has reached Legend yet? 1? 2? It probably takes several years for an average truly new player to get there, and many will never make it. The plateau idea won't make them grow faster, and it won't make the already huge smaller either. It might actually have the opposite effect, and make the size differences bigger. Why? Well, it's quite likely some players will simply stop grinding once they reach a level, and just enjoy no death penalty instead. Which is the point of the idea. But that will also lead to an increase of the size gap compared to those players tho continue to grind, or are already huge. And I doubt it makes PVP-ing as a titan vs a huge myth a lot more fun just because you don't lose XP when you die. You still lose all the time in PVP, and losing all the time is no fun regardless if the penalty is nothing but gear.
I think this idea will shake things up a bit, but it's far from guaranteed to make things better. I might be wrong in my predictions, and it does make things a little bit better. Or nothing happens. Or worst case scenario, it makes things worse, increases the gap between players and makes PVP even less fun. The idea itself is interesting, but I don't think it will do much for PVP or size differences, unless it comes with a size cap at the last level. It's also a risky idea, since we don't know how it will play out, and it might just make things worse.
The auto recovery from death idea will have absolutely no effect I think, other than easing the pain of getting your bottom kicked all the time. However, it does not solve the underlying problem. PVP will still be just as uneven, and it won't become much more fun to lose, just you because you lose less. Like I mentioned above, losing all the time is still no fun.
There has been hundreds of ideas about this presented over the years, and I've read them all, thought about them all and my only conclusion is that the only REAL solution is to implement some type of size cap. Or size boost. Or size squeeze. The reason so many other games have chosen this, is because it works. I think we need to choose. Do we want Genesis to be a game where PVP is a fun part of the game, or do we want unlimited growth? Since so many players complain about the current PVP, we might even consider removing the ability to PVP, and take the step to a grind and RP game only? Or we cap, boost or squeeze the playerbase to achieve a more even population. It's one or the other in my opinion if we want happier players overall.
However, I think it's doable to both have a cap AND make grinding after you reach the cap more fun AND keep our myths in the game without hurting them too much. We rarely ever discuss what we actually could offer _instead_ of massive stats for continued grind after a potential stat cap. I think it's because many just see the word "cap" and immediately assume they will lose years of hard work and get nothing for it, and thus start the "refuse the stat cap" campaign.
It seems like most people assumes that if your stats become capped you also lose all your XP. That's NOT how it works. XP is one thing, stats another. XP turns into stats using a formula, but just because we change the formula for stats doesn't mean the XP itself is removed. So just because your stats doesn't grow after a certain point, you will still have tons of XP gathered, and you can keep gathering it, and we could do all sorts of fun things with all that XP. More fun things that stats ever do, because how fun is it really to grind grind grind and not watch your stats grow since you're far beyond supreme anyway? We could have much more interesting rewards than that for the grinders, rewards that can be a lot of fun, and powerful, but rewards that does not really make you more powerful in PVP, and if so, only by a tiny bit.
And what would that be? Well it could be ANYTHING. Titles, skills, spells, special abilities, your own guild, your own ship, autosaving equipment etc etc etc. Anything but stats. And anything that does not increase your PVP power more than very marginally. Stats isn't the only reward imaginable... and there's probably a whole lot of other rewards that are actually more fun to grind for. If you dare give the idea of grinding for something else than stats a chance that is.
The end result is that we end up with much more evenly matched players in PVP, and also an "endgame grind" that is a lot more fun than today's unrewarding system. I am very confident that replacing stats with something else after a certain level will do nothing but good things for ALL players. And that's very important. I think after the initial shock both new and old players would enjoy the game more.
So I dare everyone who is against a stat cap to come up with rewards other than stats, that you think would be fun to grind for instead. Surely there must be something?
How many truly new players has reached Legend yet? 1? 2? It probably takes several years for an average truly new player to get there, and many will never make it. The plateau idea won't make them grow faster, and it won't make the already huge smaller either. It might actually have the opposite effect, and make the size differences bigger. Why? Well, it's quite likely some players will simply stop grinding once they reach a level, and just enjoy no death penalty instead. Which is the point of the idea. But that will also lead to an increase of the size gap compared to those players tho continue to grind, or are already huge. And I doubt it makes PVP-ing as a titan vs a huge myth a lot more fun just because you don't lose XP when you die. You still lose all the time in PVP, and losing all the time is no fun regardless if the penalty is nothing but gear.
I think this idea will shake things up a bit, but it's far from guaranteed to make things better. I might be wrong in my predictions, and it does make things a little bit better. Or nothing happens. Or worst case scenario, it makes things worse, increases the gap between players and makes PVP even less fun. The idea itself is interesting, but I don't think it will do much for PVP or size differences, unless it comes with a size cap at the last level. It's also a risky idea, since we don't know how it will play out, and it might just make things worse.
The auto recovery from death idea will have absolutely no effect I think, other than easing the pain of getting your bottom kicked all the time. However, it does not solve the underlying problem. PVP will still be just as uneven, and it won't become much more fun to lose, just you because you lose less. Like I mentioned above, losing all the time is still no fun.
There has been hundreds of ideas about this presented over the years, and I've read them all, thought about them all and my only conclusion is that the only REAL solution is to implement some type of size cap. Or size boost. Or size squeeze. The reason so many other games have chosen this, is because it works. I think we need to choose. Do we want Genesis to be a game where PVP is a fun part of the game, or do we want unlimited growth? Since so many players complain about the current PVP, we might even consider removing the ability to PVP, and take the step to a grind and RP game only? Or we cap, boost or squeeze the playerbase to achieve a more even population. It's one or the other in my opinion if we want happier players overall.
However, I think it's doable to both have a cap AND make grinding after you reach the cap more fun AND keep our myths in the game without hurting them too much. We rarely ever discuss what we actually could offer _instead_ of massive stats for continued grind after a potential stat cap. I think it's because many just see the word "cap" and immediately assume they will lose years of hard work and get nothing for it, and thus start the "refuse the stat cap" campaign.
It seems like most people assumes that if your stats become capped you also lose all your XP. That's NOT how it works. XP is one thing, stats another. XP turns into stats using a formula, but just because we change the formula for stats doesn't mean the XP itself is removed. So just because your stats doesn't grow after a certain point, you will still have tons of XP gathered, and you can keep gathering it, and we could do all sorts of fun things with all that XP. More fun things that stats ever do, because how fun is it really to grind grind grind and not watch your stats grow since you're far beyond supreme anyway? We could have much more interesting rewards than that for the grinders, rewards that can be a lot of fun, and powerful, but rewards that does not really make you more powerful in PVP, and if so, only by a tiny bit.
And what would that be? Well it could be ANYTHING. Titles, skills, spells, special abilities, your own guild, your own ship, autosaving equipment etc etc etc. Anything but stats. And anything that does not increase your PVP power more than very marginally. Stats isn't the only reward imaginable... and there's probably a whole lot of other rewards that are actually more fun to grind for. If you dare give the idea of grinding for something else than stats a chance that is.
The end result is that we end up with much more evenly matched players in PVP, and also an "endgame grind" that is a lot more fun than today's unrewarding system. I am very confident that replacing stats with something else after a certain level will do nothing but good things for ALL players. And that's very important. I think after the initial shock both new and old players would enjoy the game more.
So I dare everyone who is against a stat cap to come up with rewards other than stats, that you think would be fun to grind for instead. Surely there must be something?