Bonk deleted

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Dread
Great Adventurer
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Joined: 12 Mar 2010 23:53

Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Dread » 14 Dec 2016 22:11

nils wrote:Yeah, Calians are so underpowered.
Well, my biases are quite easily found with some reading. Yours are pretty apparent as well. I didn't mention, elude to, or in anyway indicate Calians. There are quite a few guild imbalances. Are calians one of them? Not sure, I don't know much about them.

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Cherek
Site Admin
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Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Cherek » 15 Dec 2016 12:12

nils wrote:There's peace now. PvP with Calia is now restricted to the ones you mentioned, and Habiki owes a death. This would be made public on the forums right after the Bonk-episode, except.. it was somehow.. not, and stayed in Sparkle only.
If you post, then remove a post to edit it and repost it, it can sometimes break the connection to the forum, and it does not get posted here. So that is probably why it didn't show up here?

As for peace. Im my opinion, peace in the real world is awesome, peace in Genesis is boring.:) Ultimately we should be able to offer a PVP system where war is _fun_, and players should not feel they have to negotiate peace just because they feel they are hurting someone too badly. Which I suspect is the case here? Correct me if I am wrong please, but would you not really prefer the war going on, and you could continue fighting? Because you enjoy fighting? For that to happen we need to find a way to make guild wars fun for more than a handful of players though.

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Kitriana
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Location: United Kingdom

Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Kitriana » 15 Dec 2016 12:31

Cherek wrote: As for peace. Im my opinion, peace in the real world is awesome, peace in Genesis is boring.:) Ultimately we should be able to offer a PVP system where war is _fun_, and players should not feel they have to negotiate peace just because they feel they are hurting someone too badly. Which I suspect is the case here? Correct me if I am wrong please, but would you not really prefer the war going on, and you could continue fighting? Because you enjoy fighting? For that to happen we need to find a way to make guild wars fun for more than a handful of players though.
I've sat watching this conversation with mostly feelings of dejavu. It's a story that has repeated over and over again on both sides of the good/evil spectrum over the years.
People complain about getting killed through PVP because the reality is that the penalty is too harsh. Now those doing the killing have argued if there isn't a strong enough penalty then there is no purpose in PVP.
But I recall a conversation thread where we discussed PVP creating not so much a penalty to the one being killed .. but rather a perk reward for the one who dealt the blow. Currently.. the only thing that person gets is the high of getting their enemy and inflicting pain.

Personally, I believe the PVP system does need to be adjusted to be more perk driven and less pain driven. If the person doing the killing actually gets a reward and the person killed is not dealt such a heavy blow as current (even though we all know its not as bad as it once was due to recovery) .. I think you'd see people complain less.

But the question remains .. what wizard/admin will spend the time to code what suggestions/changes the community comes up? If there is no one to make the adjustments. This is just another venting session that will accomplish little and be just another footnote in the PVP Issues Book.
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

Draugor
Myth
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Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Draugor » 15 Dec 2016 12:36

THing is, perk rewarding etc, people will only get a friend to come, get killed for perk benefits. So its VERY easy to abuse

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Cherek
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Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Cherek » 15 Dec 2016 12:49

Kitriana: Well, we can never guarantee there is a wizard who will code anything. In my, experience the ideas that have the biggest chance of getting implemented is the genius but simple ones! Which of course are the hardest ones to come up with too. But when someone comes with a really good, well thought-out idea that both fixes a problem / improves something and also is simple, the chances of it happening increase greatly.

Usually the ideas we discuss are either very complex and would require a team of wizard and years of coding and testing, or they are just quickly thought out, and offer very little detail. Like "Hm, maybe we could have a option with PVP on/off?". Which is not an idea, it's just a thought.

Well thought out ideas where someone has weighed all the negative and positive sides, and explains in detail how things should work receives more serious consideration upstairs, and if it's a good one often leads to us at least discussing it in the wiz world. If it is also simple, then it has a real shot of happening quite soon. Ideas are implemented now and then, and sometimes it goes really quick from idea to implementation. Obviously, most ideas remain just ideas, but all you have to lose by presenting an idea is time!

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Vyasa
Wizard
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Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Vyasa » 15 Dec 2016 13:36

An idea for an easy, quick fix, consisting of three steps:
  • Make all equipment and items belonging to a player slain in PVP remain on the player. If it is too difficult to implement, then simply make player bodies non lootable except by the player they belong to.
  • Create a hard-coded, automatic PVP off option that marks both the victim and the aggressor, rendering them unable to participate in it until next Arma.
  • Establish a dynamic stat-based check for PVP similar to discipline which limits not only the small player from attacking the big one, but the other way around too
Rationale per step:
  • Death exp loss is covered by recovery. Not the biggest of issues. The main problem is the loss of equipment which is an arduous task, oftentimes the main reason a player says 'Oh to hell with it... ' and quits is because of the loss of equipment and the pain it is to gather more.
  • A hard-coded way to avoid griefing or overdoing pvp.
  • A way to preventing #2 from becoming a: 'I'll catch you next Arma!' (The player will need to recover first) as well as avoiding disparate size differences from becoming an issue.

Additional suggestion:
  • Remove snares as a guild-only ability and make them global, item or skill based (global high enough block for everyone?) The rationale for this being a way to make everyone equally capable of trapping you, or simply walking away.
Interesting at all? Ideas? Suggestions? Possible consequences? Any foreseeable issues here that could be prevented?
Curving back within myself I create again and again.

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Kitriana
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Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Kitriana » 15 Dec 2016 13:57

I think first you'd need to have a poll asking what are the things that those who hate PVP dislike about it and order them on a scale. I think you would be surprised at the results.

Also -- I think you need a questionare asking aggressors what they get most out of a PVP kill and why they choose it participate. Sometimes just simply asking questions wil provide data points that were not considered and may effect the solution we come up with.

I'm not sure this questionare will really be fruitful on the forum though .. as many participants and/or victims do not frequent the forum.
Perhaps the wizards wouldn't mind us creating a poll/quesitonare of sorts in game with a small token reward for answering so we can get some actual data from the playerbase?
If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

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Vyasa
Wizard
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Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Vyasa » 15 Dec 2016 14:04

Kitriana wrote:I think first you'd need to have a poll asking what are the things that those who hate PVP dislike about it and order them on a scale. I think you would be surprised at the results.

Also -- I think you need a questionare asking aggressors what they get most out of a PVP kill and why they choose it participate. Sometimes just simply asking questions wil provide data points that were not considered and may effect the solution we come up with.

I'm not sure this questionare will really be fruitful on the forum though .. as many participants and/or victims do not frequent the forum.
Perhaps the wizards wouldn't mind us creating a poll/quesitonare of sorts in game with a small token reward for answering so we can get some actual data from the playerbase?
Agreed. Would be a great substitution to the weekly Wednesday quest since it would take just as much time and the rewards would be the same, but delivering invaluable input.
Curving back within myself I create again and again.

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kirsach
Wanderer
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Joined: 23 Sep 2014 20:33

Re: Bonk deleted

Post by kirsach » 15 Dec 2016 19:16

Cherek wrote:
nils wrote:There's peace now. PvP with Calia is now restricted to the ones you mentioned, and Habiki owes a death. This would be made public on the forums right after the Bonk-episode, except.. it was somehow.. not, and stayed in Sparkle only.
If you post, then remove a post to edit it and repost it, it can sometimes break the connection to the forum, and it does not get posted here. So that is probably why it didn't show up here?

As for peace. Im my opinion, peace in the real world is awesome, peace in Genesis is boring.:) Ultimately we should be able to offer a PVP system where war is _fun_, and players should not feel they have to negotiate peace just because they feel they are hurting someone too badly. Which I suspect is the case here? Correct me if I am wrong please, but would you not really prefer the war going on, and you could continue fighting? Because you enjoy fighting? For that to happen we need to find a way to make guild wars fun for more than a handful of players though.
Sorry Cherek but you are wrong. Peace is not boring. PvP is boring and force me and other to stóp play or switch to alt. Im even ready to pay higher tax for not participate in any PvP. I just want to grow. I wanmt to hit extr. Violent Brute and make 3 progresses per 8h of play. And I know many people such as me.

Bonk had the same oppinion as me. Do you remember mail action we make several months ago sending mails to wizards and Keepers against autohunt trigs and generalyy aginst pvp?

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1785
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Bonk deleted

Post by Draugor » 15 Dec 2016 19:21

kirsach wrote: Sorry Cherek but you are wrong. Peace is not boring. PvP is boring and force me and other to stóp play or switch to alt. Im even ready to pay higher tax for not participate in any PvP. I just want to grow. I wanmt to hit extr. Violent Brute and make 3 progresses per 8h of play. And I know many people such as me.

Bonk had the same oppinion as me. Do you remember mail action we make several months ago sending mails to wizards and Keepers against autohunt trigs and generalyy aginst pvp?

So dont join warring guilds, dont start shit, stay to yourself and dont socialize with the more agressive parts of the game :P

Its very possible to grow as a glad or merc and stay to yourself

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