Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

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Tindell
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Tindell » 06 Sep 2017 03:21

Draugor wrote: Alltho, shouldnt heavy ass platemails and stuffs give limitations aswell? Energies messing with the metal and stuffs? ;)
Genesis doesn't always link type to weight to quality across all armours though, so until that's standardized I don't think any D&D style armour restrictions would work.

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Mim
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Mim » 08 Sep 2017 11:22

Manglor wrote:AK,

What about limiting these changes to offensive spellcasting only?
On the same topic, I recall beeing hurt, and standing in a 'non spell casting'/fighting room, I tried to sing a healing song (soothe). The room prevented me to sing the song.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

Snedecor
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Snedecor » 17 Sep 2017 03:44

I can't talk about other peoples experience with this, but at least as far as my char goes, this seems an unfortunately unfair change.

As it stands, I can't even take on the Calian tunnels at legend level without taking on extensive and meaningful damage against the harder enemies at legend with decent gear and a +def knife, and stoneskin. I don't expect to be a neidar tank here, but at legend, I expect to be able to kill a devourer without being afraid for my health and well-being. There is a real problem if a legend stoneskin/defense focused spellcaster can't stand up to something designed for titan level characters.

I realize that there are more caster guilds than SoHM out there, and that, in fact, two shields as a Cleric was OP as far as defense goes. But this nerf ruins a transmuter SoHM without pushing them into an optimal set of few layman guilds (Necro or Thornlin I would imagine).

Snedecor
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Snedecor » 17 Sep 2017 04:44

Apparently, it's even worse. I can't even tank the gont guards without getting to hurt. What kind of a super nerf is this? This is not a mage tank character at all anymore. Transmutation is ruined.

Draugor
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Draugor » 17 Sep 2017 09:03

Snedecor wrote:Apparently, it's even worse. I can't even tank the gont guards without getting to hurt. What kind of a super nerf is this? This is not a mage tank character at all anymore. Transmutation is ruined.

Remove the shields and cast, wont be able to dps for piss tho.

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Arman
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Arman » 17 Sep 2017 09:05

Magic guilds have a distinct advantage in being able to access more combat aid than their melee contemporaries. To balance this advantage, they must have appropriate drawbacks.

The three core drawbacks (there often are more, but these are the base ones) are the requirements of mana usage, spell ingredients, and general vulnerability in melee combat. Dual shield wearing removed that last drawback and needed to be addressed. You can still do it, however you will really struggle to cast anything.

I get where you are coming from though Snedecor - if you had created a wizard build around maximising defence than this change would have hurt that defensive build. And I think that it doesn't help that your layman choice doesn't offer as much benefit to you as other guilds like the Necromancers or militia... Carnak is looking in to the Shieldbearers to make sure they are a viable choice.

Draugor
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Draugor » 17 Sep 2017 09:45

Arman wrote:Magic guilds have a distinct advantage in being able to access more combat aid than their melee contemporaries. To balance this advantage, they must have appropriate drawbacks.

The three core drawbacks (there often are more, but these are the base ones) are the requirements of mana usage, spell ingredients, and general vulnerability in melee combat. Dual shield wearing removed that last drawback and needed to be addressed. You can still do it, however you will really struggle to cast anything.

I get where you are coming from though Snedecor - if you had created a wizard build around maximising defence than this change would have hurt that defensive build. And I think that it doesn't help that your layman choice doesn't offer as much benefit to you as other guilds like the Necromancers or militia... Carnak is looking in to the Shieldbearers to make sure they are a viable choice.

Why not remove heavy armours? Make their own spellshields better but make em cloth armour only?

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Arman
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Arman » 17 Sep 2017 10:48

Draugor wrote:
Arman wrote:Magic guilds have a distinct advantage in being able to access more combat aid than their melee contemporaries. To balance this advantage, they must have appropriate drawbacks.

The three core drawbacks (there often are more, but these are the base ones) are the requirements of mana usage, spell ingredients, and general vulnerability in melee combat. Dual shield wearing removed that last drawback and needed to be addressed. You can still do it, however you will really struggle to cast anything.

I get where you are coming from though Snedecor - if you had created a wizard build around maximising defence than this change would have hurt that defensive build. And I think that it doesn't help that your layman choice doesn't offer as much benefit to you as other guilds like the Necromancers or militia... Carnak is looking in to the Shieldbearers to make sure they are a viable choice.

Why not remove heavy armours? Make their own spellshields better but make em cloth armour only?
Yeah, at some point it would be great to have the magic and combat system robust enough to allow that sort of thing. We'll keep iterating and hopefully get to a point where there is a much clearer distinction between clerical and mage guilds, including that sort of thing.

In the meantime there are a lot of things needing sorting out before we get to that point!

Snedecor
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Snedecor » 17 Sep 2017 23:19

Thanks for the meaningful attempt at a solution draugor, but I am almost constantly casting, so removing shields would mean I would hardly be able to get any defense from them.

There has to be a balance, as I believe everyone knows, between being close to reality and ease of use/effectiveness of game mechanics. The big question is where that lies. Transmutation at least -was- the most common choice for sohm for practical reasons:

Teaming during the week is rare, sohm other options are squishy squishy, and the damage, while nothing compared to conjurers, is good enough. Beats the stink out of my old clerical damage.

To date, I had found a guild that offered medium defense, medium offense. It was great! Now I have medium damage and squishy defense. Yes, I can be a conjurers but I didn't choose the calians for a reason, and that is why I'm not thrilled at the prospect of conjurer.

I also get that heaven and Earth should not move for -me- alone, but this is the experience of the other transmutes I've ran into as well.

I still find it shocking you feel that sounds has great burst damage. Rolling through our spells provides a rolling continuous sort of damage that is very smooth to my view. It also suffers in multiple places from resistances. That's fair, but I don't perceive it as wholly unfair or OP pre change.

Snedecor
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Re: Change to spellcasting and shieldwearing

Post by Snedecor » 17 Sep 2017 23:24

It is true from my teaming with another transmuter that I appear to suffer much more than they do, soy layman does come into play.

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