Bounce mechanic change.

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mallor
Rising Hero
Posts: 371
Joined: 27 Jun 2011 13:20

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by mallor » 18 Jan 2018 20:03

Alisa wrote: In PVP, the one fleeing gets fucked tho. His abilities will no longer work.
Not only fleeing, PvP is not about standing in one room exchanging hits, never was. Now the one who moves first is fucked.

Saimon
Wanderer
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Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Saimon » 18 Jan 2018 21:58

Mallor, not exactly. Look at firts post in the topic:
"Specials won't be affected when chasing a foe, so should not impact hunting practices."

mallor
Rising Hero
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Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by mallor » 18 Jan 2018 22:29

Saimon wrote:Mallor, not exactly. Look at firts post in the topic:
"Specials won't be affected when chasing a foe, so should not impact hunting practices."
What about the "foe" that is being "chased"? If I leave the room first I'm screwed? That's how PvP is going to work now?

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Shanoga
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Location: US West

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Shanoga » 19 Jan 2018 05:23

mallor wrote:
Saimon wrote:Mallor, not exactly. Look at firts post in the topic:
"Specials won't be affected when chasing a foe, so should not impact hunting practices."
What about the "foe" that is being "chased"? If I leave the room first I'm screwed? That's how PvP is going to work now?
If I am reading the post correctly, because you are leaving the room you would cancel any specials/spells that you are preparing but have not yet hit. If your opponent is also preparing a special/spell and they pursue into the same room as you before the prep time ends and the damage is supposed to hit, then their damage would hit you. However, as soon as they enter the same room as you again, you could begin preparing your special/spell to fire back, or continue to flee like a big chicken. ;)

Carnak
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Posts: 26
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Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Carnak » 19 Jan 2018 08:41

mallor wrote:While this makes sense, it raises some questions.

1. This will obviously benefit supermyths, us little guys could at least pose some competition, by spending x10 time in process, now it won't be possible at all.
2. This will obviously benefit guilds with faster special prep time, since cooldown will still be spent outside of the room.
1. If you're spending 10x the time to take something down, you're reaching beyond your potential. Which I agree can be really fun, but bouncing was a clear abuse of mechanics and always has been. So will have to do it by gathering equipment that utilizes situational bonuses instead, like potions/wands/herbs/stun eq ;). It should be a benefit to be a myth, be it hunting for gear or XPing.

2. It is not a benefit to guilds with faster special prep times. Your special cooldown is longer if you leave during prep time (always has been, not a new change), what we fixed was just a way to prevent abuse of mechanics.

Carnak
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Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Carnak » 19 Jan 2018 09:07

mallor wrote:
Saimon wrote:Mallor, not exactly. Look at firts post in the topic:
"Specials won't be affected when chasing a foe, so should not impact hunting practices."
What about the "foe" that is being "chased"? If I leave the room first I'm screwed? That's how PvP is going to work now?
This might raise a fair point, and its up to the whole of the community to decide. But from what I have seen, bouncing is utilized in PvP aswell with some degree of success (only seen it with spells and old backstab, but could potentially work with all abilities if you manage to get the timing down).

Do we really want a bunch of Jo-Jo's in genesis? bouncing in and out every other second. In my opinion, if you leave the room, you should be at a disadvantage. You're turning your back on someone to run away, be it strategically or not. If you want to utilize this to drag someone to a blockable room or something, you can always stop using your specials or run during cooldown (if you have the presence of mind to do so).

Carnak
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Joined: 13 Sep 2013 16:58

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Carnak » 19 Jan 2018 09:11

Shanoga wrote:
mallor wrote:
Saimon wrote:Mallor, not exactly. Look at firts post in the topic:
"Specials won't be affected when chasing a foe, so should not impact hunting practices."
What about the "foe" that is being "chased"? If I leave the room first I'm screwed? That's how PvP is going to work now?
If I am reading the post correctly, because you are leaving the room you would cancel any specials/spells that you are preparing but have not yet hit. If your opponent is also preparing a special/spell and they pursue into the same room as you before the prep time ends and the damage is supposed to hit, then their damage would hit you. However, as soon as they enter the same room as you again, you could begin preparing your special/spell to fire back, or continue to flee like a big chicken. ;)
The loss of the special is not instant, but maybe it should be? This reduces the loss when being hunted. Discuss it and see what the lot of you think :)

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Alisa
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Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Alisa » 19 Jan 2018 09:36

Carnak wrote: Do we really want a bunch of Jo-Jo's in genesis? bouncing in and out every other second. In my opinion, if you leave the room, you should be at a disadvantage. You're turning your back on someone to run away, be it strategically or not. If you want to utilize this to drag someone to a blockable room or something, you can always stop using your specials or run during cooldown (if you have the presence of mind to do so).
Very good argument, that i agree on.

On point two, i would say yes, it should be instant.
Loss of concentration on spells, or on a special is noticed at the time you move, not 1-6 seconds after.
EDIT: Also, i don't think you can abort a special, like you can a spell/prayer. I dont know though, never seen a reason to do it. Edit off.

mallor
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Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by mallor » 19 Jan 2018 18:41

Shanoga wrote:
mallor wrote:
Saimon wrote:Mallor, not exactly. Look at firts post in the topic:
"Specials won't be affected when chasing a foe, so should not impact hunting practices."
What about the "foe" that is being "chased"? If I leave the room first I'm screwed? That's how PvP is going to work now?
If I am reading the post correctly, because you are leaving the room you would cancel any specials/spells that you are preparing but have not yet hit. If your opponent is also preparing a special/spell and they pursue into the same room as you before the prep time ends and the damage is supposed to hit, then their damage would hit you. However, as soon as they enter the same room as you again, you could begin preparing your special/spell to fire back, or continue to flee like a big chicken. ;)
Dodging knights charge was a very common tactic since... always, now it won't work. So it puts the balance into a point where knights can dodge my dfear and dbreath and I can't dodge their charge. I would say leave PvP mechanics as they were, if this is going to change I see no point to PvP at all.

mallor
Rising Hero
Posts: 371
Joined: 27 Jun 2011 13:20

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by mallor » 19 Jan 2018 18:44

Carnak wrote:
mallor wrote:While this makes sense, it raises some questions.

1. This will obviously benefit supermyths, us little guys could at least pose some competition, by spending x10 time in process, now it won't be possible at all.
2. This will obviously benefit guilds with faster special prep time, since cooldown will still be spent outside of the room.
1. If you're spending 10x the time to take something down, you're reaching beyond your potential. Which I agree can be really fun, but bouncing was a clear abuse of mechanics and always has been. So will have to do it by gathering equipment that utilizes situational bonuses instead, like potions/wands/herbs/stun eq ;). It should be a benefit to be a myth, be it hunting for gear or XPing.

2. It is not a benefit to guilds with faster special prep times. Your special cooldown is longer if you leave during prep time (always has been, not a new change), what we fixed was just a way to prevent abuse of mechanics.
1. I'm myth and then some more, I was talking about supermyth size who kill dragons while picking their teeth with an FBB.

2. Right now to land my special I'll have to wait the prep time and only then leave. Hence guilds with specials with lower prep time benefit from this, because they will receive less hits while they prepare their special. Cooldown is meaningless, because it will be spent outside of the fight. So overall players with faster prep times will be hit less, hence will last longer with "new bounce"

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