Bounce mechanic change.

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Alteor
Adventurer
Posts: 95
Joined: 23 Nov 2017 03:45

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Alteor » 20 Jan 2018 15:33

Still, before doing major changes like that, you should make it so the game is not super boring first...

Merc/BM fights were:

battack
mattack
battack
mattack...

put that on trigger.

and that was it.

bouncing was the ONLY thing I figured I would do to make it better, trying to master bouncing and kiting made it a bit more interesting.

Now that your posts confirmed you indeed, don't want people to move, you should be aware it might cause more botting and such, since fighting will consist of "kill orc" and you walk away while your triggers automatically reenage your boring specials, since you can't move, there is nothign to do except wait.

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Ckrik
Wizard
Posts: 57
Joined: 05 Mar 2015 03:18

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Ckrik » 20 Jan 2018 19:27

Alteor wrote:Still, before doing major changes like that, you should make it so the game is not super boring first...

Merc/BM fights were:

battack
mattack
battack
mattack...

put that on trigger.

and that was it.

bouncing was the ONLY thing I figured I would do to make it better, trying to master bouncing and kiting made it a bit more interesting.

Now that your posts confirmed you indeed, don't want people to move, you should be aware it might cause more botting and such, since fighting will consist of "kill orc" and you walk away while your triggers automatically reenage your boring specials, since you can't move, there is nothign to do except wait.
People already do that while grinding NPCs. I suspect the advanced scripters in the game have bounce sequences perfectly timed and executed in a script. Scripted bounces is exactly what we don't want whether it's PvE or PvP. As for PvP there are already lots of interesting things one can do beyond exploiting oversights in in-game mechanics. If you're bored of playing melee characters, there's a whole universe of combat support roles or non-traditional combat one can explore. Like Arman mentioned, content is constantly being added and we have a couple very creative and active wizards tweaking the game's content (hat-tip Arman, Carnak and Jaacar). Once I finish some of the tasks on my plate, I plan on discussing with Arman making stealth much more relevant in the game which should open up a whole new branch of PvP and PvE combat styles.

mallor
Rising Hero
Posts: 371
Joined: 27 Jun 2011 13:20

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by mallor » 20 Jan 2018 20:04

Ckrik wrote:
mallor wrote:
Dodging knights charge was a very common tactic since... always, now it won't work. So it puts the balance into a point where knights can dodge my dfear and dbreath and I can't dodge their charge. I would say leave PvP mechanics as they were, if this is going to change I see no point to PvP at all.
Dodging your opponent's special is exactly what we want to discourage. Remember, if your Knight opponent leaves the room, your slash/impale is still active and you basically get a free hit with a very powerful special if you find the Knight fast enough. I think it won't be very profitable for the Knight to run away.
I'm saying a very simple thing. Knights have horses, DA have dragons. Knights have immunity to dragonfear and anybody and their dog have fire protection nowdays. That gives then a very efficient way to nullify the caid coming from the dragon. without bouncing, how do I nullify the caid knights get from the horse?

Carnak
Apprentice
Posts: 26
Joined: 13 Sep 2013 16:58

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Carnak » 20 Jan 2018 21:09

mallor wrote:I'm saying a very simple thing. Knights have horses, DA have dragons. Knights have immunity to dragonfear and anybody and their dog have fire protection nowdays. That gives then a very efficient way to nullify the caid coming from the dragon. without bouncing, how do I nullify the caid knights get from the horse?
Not sure where you are going with this... I assume you're still on about dodging charge.

Charge: You can still dodge charge by leaving the room, its aborted if the knight moves (if I recall correctly its a "stationary" ability).

Dragonfear: All knights dont have immunity to dragonfear, they loose something to get it.

Fire protection: Your armours nullify special attacks, resistance nullify magic attacks.. And even if there was a disparity in fire attacks vs physical ones, it doesnt matter in this instance as dragons have both slash and breath.

mallor
Rising Hero
Posts: 371
Joined: 27 Jun 2011 13:20

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by mallor » 21 Jan 2018 02:02

Carnak wrote:
mallor wrote:I'm saying a very simple thing. Knights have horses, DA have dragons. Knights have immunity to dragonfear and anybody and their dog have fire protection nowdays. That gives then a very efficient way to nullify the caid coming from the dragon. without bouncing, how do I nullify the caid knights get from the horse?
Not sure where you are going with this... I assume you're still on about dodging charge.

Charge: You can still dodge charge by leaving the room, its aborted if the knight moves (if I recall correctly its a "stationary" ability).

Dragonfear: All knights dont have immunity to dragonfear, they loose something to get it.

Fire protection: Your armours nullify special attacks, resistance nullify magic attacks.. And even if there was a disparity in fire attacks vs physical ones, it doesnt matter in this instance as dragons have both slash and breath.
Yes I know I can still dodge charge, but now it will cost me 2 aborted specials. And I suppose you mean dswoop, an alternative to dbreath, yes I still have it, but using it on an armored knight on a horse deals around 0 damage.

Carnak
Apprentice
Posts: 26
Joined: 13 Sep 2013 16:58

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Carnak » 21 Jan 2018 16:57

mallor wrote:Knights have immunity to dragonfear and anybody and their dog have fire protection nowdays. That gives then a very efficient way to nullify the caid coming from the dragon. without bouncing, how do I nullify the caid knights get from the horse?
mallor wrote:Yes I know I can still dodge charge, but now it will cost me 2 aborted specials. And I suppose you mean dswoop, an alternative to dbreath, yes I still have it, but using it on an armored knight on a horse deals around 0 damage.
The fact that you think that swoop does little to no damage compared to the breath on knights, means that your targets have less fire resistance than physical resistance. Instead of being happy that you can deal fire damage, you complain that someone can reduce it. It would be the similar to whining about people being able to wear armours.
mallor wrote:Yes I know I can still dodge charge, but now it will cost me 2 aborted specials.
An even trade Id say, considering the situation. You dont want to take a hit, so you run. You manage to abort their one and only special but also abort your own in the process (if you are preparing them that is).

In my opinion, the charge should have an autohunt function if someone runs, or at the very least allow movement if your target runs away.

Carnak
Apprentice
Posts: 26
Joined: 13 Sep 2013 16:58

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Carnak » 21 Jan 2018 17:20

Id like to note for future posts that bouncing has more or less always (or at least as long as I have played) been considered abuse of mechanics in Genesis. There used to be _severe_ punishments for it. These days the rules overlook this to some degree though. This implementation is something that should have been added a long time ago really. The point of this thread would be to improve the anti-bouncing so it doesn't interfere with real gameplay.

A great idea for improvement came from this thread (to abort the special directly after movement instead of when you try to execute it) which will be considered. So please take this chance to discuss it while the implementation is still fresh and we are open to suggestions.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1780
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Draugor » 21 Jan 2018 18:38

Carnak wrote:Id like to note for future posts that bouncing has more or less always (or at least as long as I have played) been considered abuse of mechanics in Genesis. There used to be _severe_ punishments for it. These days the rules overlook this to some degree though. This implementation is something that should have been added a long time ago really. The point of this thread would be to improve the anti-bouncing so it doesn't interfere with real gameplay.

A great idea for improvement came from this thread (to abort the special directly after movement instead of when you try to execute it) which will be considered. So please take this chance to discuss it while the implementation is still fresh and we are open to suggestions.
Tbh yes, if you're not hunting someone, if the NPC or player you're trying to chop is moving and you come after, let it be, but if you leave the room, abort it. SAme for spells

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Mim
Veteran
Posts: 237
Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Location: Behind your back

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Mim » 22 Jan 2018 00:10

I remember when charge did actually hit someone who escaped to the next room.
It was brutally clear when 2 Gladiators sparred in the arena and one did wimpy (he forgot to turn it off) out to the hall with Brutus. *BAM* and a charge killed him as the hall was not death proof as the arena (and I think seats ) is.
As an explorer, you have done enough to retire.

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 2790
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Bounce mechanic change.

Post by Cherek » 22 Jan 2018 03:15

Bouncing as abuse/cheating was removed from the rules about the same time as using quest solutions were I think, which probably is some 15-ish years ago? Even back when it was a rule I don't remember anyone really caring. I sure bounced all over the place like a true knight!:)

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