Changes to ogre weapons

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Drazson
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Drazson » 11 Jul 2020 01:46

It's essentially some use case that the coder didn't think of, and people exploited it for the extra damage, not because it was fancy. I know nobody can prove they knew, but I think it's painfully obvious they did.

Otherwise, on the rule itself seperately from the subject, I thought that gaining a benefit through an obviously buggy route that you know is not intended to be there is something to be punished. Maybe over the years I've allowed myself to be concieted if that's a right word to use. Botting is another endeavour in which you gain a benefit not intended from the feature of scripting and you get punished for it (eventually at least, warnings and such if I remember correctly) so maybe I joined those 2 rules in my head... Thank you for the correction.

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Mavros
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Mavros » 11 Jul 2020 02:42

I don't think that they expressly knew that the creator of the AoD only wanted ogres to use them, and were intentionally distributing them regardless. It's my understanding that the AoD help files do not state "In no circumstance are these weapons to be distributed." If this were true, the large distribution of the sledgehammers would have been noticed at its advent, and solved promptly. Because this intention was not made clear, it's natural for any club-user to want their hands on such a potent weapon.

Anfalas
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Anfalas » 11 Jul 2020 05:50

Mavros wrote:
11 Jul 2020 02:42
I don't think that they expressly knew that the creator of the AoD only wanted ogres to use them, and were intentionally distributing them regardless. It's my understanding that the AoD help files do not state "In no circumstance are these weapons to be distributed." If this were true, the large distribution of the sledgehammers would have been noticed at its advent, and solved promptly. Because this intention was not made clear, it's natural for any club-user to want their hands on such a potent weapon.
How could this not be exploited? A best in slot, non-dulling weapon. Who wouldn't want that?

The armours from ogres cannot be worn by anyone else, yet the weapons can be?
In a free to join guild that has no requirements to purchase these weapons other than magical credits?
Which the magic credits can easily obtained by anyone in large quantities?
I don't need x/y/z weapon/armour so I can make an alt and "donate" it to an ogre?
I don't think Gorboth intentionally did this to be exploited, but it's no surprise it is/was.

I seem to recall these were coded not to glow/save. So allowing people to use them until September allows people to "use" the loophole until then. When realistically it should end next armageddon.

Simply put, if you want them to be balanced, make them unuseable by non-ogres.

Also, if somehow ogres become the next FOTM setup, I would suggest to find a way that they can't use/accept magic items/credits that they didn't acquire themselves.

Normally I would not reveal info like this, but it is a free to join guild. If this is not 100% accurate, please correct anything I have misinterpreted.

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Cherek
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Cherek » 11 Jul 2020 14:39

I sense some rumours are about to be started based on speculation and assumptions, so I am going to try to quell those:

I spoke to Gorboth about this about a month ago, and he's of course aware that other guilds could use the sledgehammer. He felt that they are still unique to ogres since they can wield them one-handed, and allowing other guilds to use them two-handed is something he has generally been okay with historically. So, this was not a bug or mistake. Both Gorboth and the rest of us have been aware that ogres sometimes distribute their sledgehammers to others. But why make the change now?

Well... things have changed since the ogres were created. First of all, two-handed weapons have become increasingly popular. This is partly because special attacks do way more damage than white hits (one thing we'd like to fix at some point), so a weapon with high stats is preferable, and two-handed weapons have a higher limit on stats, which means they are in the majority of situations always better than one-handed weapons, especially if you don't have to tank.

Also, as players have grown bigger and bigger and bigger, the need for shield + one-handed weapon to tank has decreased, further increasing the popularity of two-handed weapons.

With the introduction of imebuments, and the growing collections of imbuement stones in players lapidariums, unbreakable weapons have become more and more popular - including the sledgehammer.

Until recently the sledgehammers would only survive one armageddon, which was quite the drawback compared, especially when imbuing them.

So... sledgehammers have simply become more and more powerful due to side effects of other changes, and we felt it has come to a point where we need to do something about them. They'e just too good now, sorry.

The reason for september 1 as deadline is like Arman said, it gives people some time to adjust, and it also ensures people that have imbued their sledgehammers aren't instantly "robbed". It also gives us time to review the two-handed club options in the game, compare it to other weapon types, and perhaps add/tweak something if (IF) we feel the sledgehammer will leave a void that now needs to be filled by something else.

TaranGoatWalker
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by TaranGoatWalker » 11 Aug 2020 21:38

may i ask what will be done to thesledghemmaer when wieldedbynon ogres?
Applying to become a monk.
My OOC views are on this forum.
My IC views are in-game.

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Cherek
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Cherek » 12 Aug 2020 13:53

TaranGoatWalker wrote:
11 Aug 2020 21:38
may i ask what will be done to thesledghemmaer when wieldedbynon ogres?
I think Arman covered that in his intitial post? Or are you asking for specifics?

TaranGoatWalker
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by TaranGoatWalker » 12 Aug 2020 17:54

Yeah, specifics would be nice, however I understand if you can't disclose them.
Applying to become a monk.
My OOC views are on this forum.
My IC views are in-game.

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Cherek
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Cherek » 13 Aug 2020 12:54

TaranGoatWalker wrote:
12 Aug 2020 17:54
Yeah, specifics would be nice, however I understand if you can't disclose them.
Right. Well, I'll leave that up to Arman, if he wants to share something more specific.

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Arman
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by Arman » 13 Aug 2020 15:37

TaranGoatWalker wrote:
11 Aug 2020 21:38
may i ask what will be done to thesledghemmaer when wieldedbynon ogres?
They'll be less good than when wielded by ogres.

TaranGoatWalker
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Re: Changes to ogre weapons

Post by TaranGoatWalker » 15 Aug 2020 21:23

Arman wrote:
13 Aug 2020 15:37
TaranGoatWalker wrote:
11 Aug 2020 21:38
may i ask what will be done to thesledghemmaer when wieldedbynon ogres?
They'll be less good than when wielded by ogres.
can you disclose details?
Applying to become a monk.
My OOC views are on this forum.
My IC views are in-game.

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