Upcoming Changes.

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Kvator
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Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Kvator » 07 Mar 2021 03:57

Cherek wrote:
06 Mar 2021 17:44
We will not restore any deaths. We've tried removing death from the game during a test before, and it had really negative effects on a lot of things, and almost all player agreed based on a vote here (don't think I've ever seen such a one-sided vote)
u mean this one:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2557&hilit=poll+death

?

it's actually pretty even for 'genesis forum polls standard'

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Cherek
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Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Cherek » 07 Mar 2021 04:13

Kvator: Yes, that's the one. 69-31 is pretty one-sided if you ask me. It would be a landslide in a presidential election! The only more one-sided vote I can think of was a vote about letting EQ save permanently for newbies, which was like 90-10 if I remember right. And I am not counting the ones where someone makes a "poll", formulated in a way that will ensure a one-sided vote, just to prove their point in an argument. Those are just silly.

Kvator
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Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Kvator » 07 Mar 2021 05:56

Cherek wrote:
07 Mar 2021 04:13
Kvator: Yes, that's the one. 69-31 is pretty one-sided if you ask me. It would be a landslide in a presidential election! The only more one-sided vote I can think of was a vote about letting EQ save permanently for newbies, which was like 90-10 if I remember right. And I am not counting the ones where someone makes a "poll", formulated in a way that will ensure a one-sided vote, just to prove their point in an argument. Those are just silly.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3343&p=30012&hilit=poll#p30012 - 68% (but considering that there were 3 options it can be described as even more 'one-sided')

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3110&p=27411&hilit=poll#p27411 - 85%

that's a quick find - prolly we'll have more if we dig deeper

majority of polls on this forum is created to just prove the point of the poll-maker (some obvious stuff, or some nice formulating as u said) so calling this death penalty poll 'the most one-sided ever' is simply not true, since it was a pretty standard poll here :)

TripleM
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Joined: 19 Sep 2018 13:53

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by TripleM » 07 Mar 2021 09:34

Cherek wrote:
07 Mar 2021 04:13
Kvator: Yes, that's the one. 69-31 is pretty one-sided if you ask me. It would be a landslide in a presidential election! The only more one-sided vote I can think of was a vote about letting EQ save permanently for newbies, which was like 90-10 if I remember right. And I am not counting the ones where someone makes a "poll", formulated in a way that will ensure a one-sided vote, just to prove their point in an argument. Those are just silly.
So 50 votes 8 years ago, when there wasnt a highly volatile change in the combat-system being implemented, decides that there can not and will not be a restoration for playerdeaths in upcoming weeks. And the landslide back then was roughly 2-1. I dont think that is fair use of a poll.

I do not use scripting for areas, and as a Calian I am not likely to be the first to die. I disagree with the logic that is being applied here. The fact whether or not I think it's a good idea or not to raise white damage with 2.x, i havent even brought up. I went on the record stating that it is a very big deal with high impact on various areas with risk applied. I had thought a 1.4 (40% increase on white damage) or something would be a big deal.

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Redblade
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Joined: 10 Aug 2020 18:51

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Redblade » 07 Mar 2021 11:53

Targun wrote:
07 Mar 2021 01:10
As for guilds, it's hard to guess who are going to be the biggest "winners and loosers", until some time goes into testing of configs, equipment and spells. If you're willing to team, my bet would be on Calians, followed in some distance by Knights. Being able to split or rotate tanks and benefit from multiple health pools seems to offer the best of both worlds (you deal more dmg and you should have enough HP to distribute to grind without sacrificing any offense).
Is it that hard to guess? I'll be daring and give it a go. Some may be more hoping that guessing, really. In a couple weeks, you can tell me how my guess went :) Anyone want's to add theirs? Might as well get some fun out of this change ;) I marked those that I have less info/certainty with a (?). I'm also looking at a "just the OCC no Layman" setup. Surely some combinations will improve the QoL but that means the change will only kill some combos.

"Winners": Ogres, Monks, Knights, Rangers, FK(?), Cadets, PoT, Neidar
Middle: Glads, DA, Mercs(?), SU(?), Kenders(?), EA , AA
"Losers": EC, MM(?), SoHM, WoHS(?), Elemental Academy, Calians

Add your guess below! :D
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 254
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Thalric » 07 Mar 2021 17:03

This is stupid.

I hear of people doing more damage with white hits than with specials.
I see places being cleared in no time at all.

If this isn't changed, then a team with 1 good tanks and a bunch of 2-weapon fighters are able to clear all XP grounds in the realms in an hour or two.
Then how about all the other people.
Are we all supposed to just stand around waiting for stuff to spawn? Or is the idea to make all XP go away so we (finally, would some maybe say) begin attacking each other for lack of other options..?

Drazson
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Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Drazson » 07 Mar 2021 18:49

Doing more damage with white hits as opposed to specials, assuming you have 4 white hits in the time you do 1 special makes all the sense in the world. (See, for example, most other games where a 1.5x modifier is for abilities where 1x is the white hits or basic abilities that take the place of white hits etc)

It is a change which was obviously going to change things, I am pretty sure that if anyone stops breathing through the mouth and being passive aggressive they can understand that nobody wants a game where NPCs are scarce to find and train against so the wizards will see how things go and get on some adjusting (as was half-expected - I guess).

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Cherek
Site Admin
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Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Cherek » 07 Mar 2021 20:19

Kvator: Fine, it wasn't as one-sided as I remembered, but 69-31 is still a clear majority.

TripleM: Genesis decisions aren't decided by voting, I simply mentioned the vote to remind you that we have tried it, and the majority of players did not like it (and most wizards didn't either). Not much has changed since then, so I don't think the majority would like it now either. Personally, I didn't think restorations was a good idea during the old wizdays, I didn't think death on vacation worked during the test 8 years ago, and I don't think it's a good idea now either. Me and Carnak discussed it before this change, and decided against it. I respect that you feel differently, but... there will be no restoration because in my opinion the upside of doing that is small compared to numerous possible issues. But, we can argue this forever, and neither of us will likely change our point of view here. So, this is how it's gonna be. There will be no restorations, unless of course players die due to some kind of bug.

Chanele
Titan
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 12:39

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Chanele » 07 Mar 2021 21:06

Sounds like a good change all in all.

In which phase will AC vs Resist on mobs and critters be adressed?

Example: Orc captain was a pain for melee before this change and now most likely impossible to beat while a champion (insert caster guild here) can beat him in seconds. I doubt this change will change that outcome.

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Redblade
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Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Redblade » 07 Mar 2021 21:27

I'll go ahead and disagree on this being a good change :)

The change, as some of us heralded, completely reverted balance. I play quite a few chars, some even won the lottery with this change, being able to defeat enemies several levels above their size (while wearing only a bit of armour). Others however got totally sunk, to the borderline of play-ability. If any of the immortals even wants to hear concrete facts of my own personal testing, feel free to mail me. I don't really feel like debating them on forums :)

Put all in all. This change completely unbalanced and butchered everything that was true before. Yes. It improved some areas slightly. But I fear it hurt other areas far more.Personally, while also enjoying the fruits of this change greatly and I could make some of my chars grow very fast, I vote for a rollback.

@Cherek: Well, perhaps we should do a poll here as well? Maybe majority is needed. But if even 20 % of the players say "this change sucked", is it not worth giving a thought? :)
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

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