Upcoming Changes.

All Genesis Common Board Messages get directed here. Discuss and comment!
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
User avatar
Redblade
Adventurer
Posts: 89
Joined: 10 Aug 2020 18:51

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Redblade » 07 Mar 2021 21:31

Chanele wrote:
07 Mar 2021 21:06
Sounds like a good change all in all.

In which phase will AC vs Resist on mobs and critters be adressed?

Example: Orc captain was a pain for melee before this change and now most likely impossible to beat while a champion (insert caster guild here) can beat him in seconds. I doubt this change will change that outcome.
Every (insert caster guild here) is now barely capable taking hits from basic NPCs. That captain would kill my own caster titan in seconds. :) just to adress that right there
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

Kvator
Champion
Posts: 645
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 21:25

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Kvator » 07 Mar 2021 22:10

I kind of like the general direction in which the game is shifting with this change (xp being faster but way riskier, tanks and utility guilds are back in favor -> all in all this may change xping into something a bit more exciting than the scrip-fest we are all used to*), but atm I have problem with the fact that this change boosted things that were already OP (haste, goblins, teleports) so there is prolly a loooot to work on in terms of balance.

* or we just need to refine our scripts lol

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1516
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Amberlee » 07 Mar 2021 22:31

TripleM wrote:
06 Mar 2021 17:58
Basicly you say: 'We cannot test it all, you do it for us. But if you die, we have warned you in advance - you have only to blame yourself if you visit Lars. Send him our regards!'

A bit cold, no? Anyways: Amberlee, spare me some popcorn, I'll share some of my beers?
You got a deal!
Which brand of beer?
And don't say Budweiser!
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

TripleM
Beginner
Posts: 22
Joined: 19 Sep 2018 13:53

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by TripleM » 07 Mar 2021 22:59

Amberlee wrote:
07 Mar 2021 22:31
TripleM wrote:
06 Mar 2021 17:58
Basicly you say: 'We cannot test it all, you do it for us. But if you die, we have warned you in advance - you have only to blame yourself if you visit Lars. Send him our regards!'

A bit cold, no? Anyways: Amberlee, spare me some popcorn, I'll share some of my beers?
You got a deal!
Which brand of beer?
And don't say Budweiser!
Budweiser *puke*, that was a low jab, just because I am one of the few people that can deal with the old elf, doesnt mean I agree with all his wicked ways!
What's your stance on Belgian Beers? The people from Belgium are prety much useless, but IMHO they know how to brew beers! ;-)

User avatar
Silon
Beginner
Posts: 14
Joined: 27 Oct 2020 23:14

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Silon » 07 Mar 2021 23:00

Ok, I just want to say with this change, I'm seeing fighters tank better than me, I'm seeing do more damage than my spells with *white hits* and everyone had to downgrade to new areas so there's little to kill. On top of there being next to nothing to kill efficiently, things seem to be dying too fast, I had to stop in between rooms to heal constantly because one white hit will take a chunk out of my health if it hits and I'm well past supreme con. Even with sup pro parry, sup pro defense, defensive spells, and high con and dex, I'm still outclassed. The initial damage increase was far too large, a little over double shouldn't have been the first thing to implemented in my opinion.

If I was any bigger than I was now my white hits would probably be more useful than my spells, not that I'm getting many white hits, I understand you're trying to close the gap between fighters and casters, but this is a bit much and too major. If you were to make casters weaker than they are now, a lot wouldn't stand a chance in this cruel cruel world. If anyone replies to this, I don't want to hear anything about "well casters were overpowered for so long."No player or game developer should be wanting imbalance in their games. They should always be looking to improve(I know wizards wouldn't say something like that, it's more directed as other players).
Rolling along in the grease of shame....wait potatoes don't feel shame do they?

TripleM
Beginner
Posts: 22
Joined: 19 Sep 2018 13:53

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by TripleM » 07 Mar 2021 23:04

Cherek wrote:
07 Mar 2021 20:19
Kvator: Fine, it wasn't as one-sided as I remembered, but 69-31 is still a clear majority.

TripleM: Genesis decisions aren't decided by voting, I simply mentioned the vote to remind you that we have tried it, and the majority of players did not like it (and most wizards didn't either). Not much has changed since then, so I don't think the majority would like it now either. Personally, I didn't think restorations was a good idea during the old wizdays, I didn't think death on vacation worked during the test 8 years ago, and I don't think it's a good idea now either. Me and Carnak discussed it before this change, and decided against it. I respect that you feel differently, but... there will be no restoration because in my opinion there the upside of doing that is small compared to numerous possible issues. But, we can argue this forever, and neither of us will likely change our point of view here. So, this is how it's gonna be. There will be no restorations, unless of course players die due to some kind of bug.
Bad form Cherek. I didn't bring up polls, votes or democracy, you did. And you claimed it was about as unanimous as any poll you'd ever seen. You could have gone with 'Me and Carnak decide how we run the game, no restorations'. That would have saved both of us the effort of last couple of notes, and apparently be the honest answer to my question.

I just brought up that I don't understand (the need for) the magnitude of 2.x increase on white hits and that it would have a huge impact on several things and that there would be risks, and I asked if you considered restoring players if you were seeing this as a testphase. It takes courage to try and change things; I think it is next to impossible to get a change like this right in one attempt. I doubt you did get it right, but I'll leave it to others to provide you wiith valuable feedback on this. I do not blame you for trying to change things, I even applaud it.

I am disappointed with the fact that there was no room for player-input, at least not from all of us - 'we decided this, deal with it, enjoy the changes, Yay!'. I think your statements in this thread lack empathy towards the players that did play this game for a long time and actually liked the game, despite some of its quirks. So yes, the two of us disagree.

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1516
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Amberlee » 07 Mar 2021 23:11

TripleM wrote:
07 Mar 2021 22:59
Amberlee wrote:
07 Mar 2021 22:31
TripleM wrote:
06 Mar 2021 17:58
Basicly you say: 'We cannot test it all, you do it for us. But if you die, we have warned you in advance - you have only to blame yourself if you visit Lars. Send him our regards!'

A bit cold, no? Anyways: Amberlee, spare me some popcorn, I'll share some of my beers?
You got a deal!
Which brand of beer?
And don't say Budweiser!
Budweiser *puke*, that was a low jab, just because I am one of the few people that can deal with the old elf, doesnt mean I agree with all his wicked ways!
What's your stance on Belgian Beers? The people from Belgium are prety much useless, but IMHO they know how to brew beers! ;-)
Big fan of dutch beer, especially Grolsch.
Not sure about belgian beer, but I am open to trying! :D
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

User avatar
Mim
Rising Hero
Posts: 330
Joined: 06 Mar 2010 14:39
Location: Behind your back

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Mim » 07 Mar 2021 23:59

Amberlee wrote:
07 Mar 2021 23:11

Big fan of dutch beer, especially Grolsch.
Not sure about belgian beer, but I am open to trying! :D
You lived your whole life without tasting Leffe?
You are such a loser, Amberlee. :)

Here, I give you a look of the nectar of gods.

https://www.google.com/search?q=leffe+b ... hVs6grM6hM

User avatar
Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3179
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Cherek » 08 Mar 2021 01:11

TripleM: Sorry you feel that way. That's all I can say. I am trying my best to show that I care and listen to players, and I really do hope most feel that I do. Clearly I failed to give you that feeling in this thread, but you also came on pretty strong so I guess I turned a bit defensive.

As for listening to players, sure, of course we do listen and care about what players feel. But, we also need to go with what WE think is right. We did volunteer to run this game, so in the end, it's our vision on how it's gonna work that will be how it works. If a large majority of players think something is wrong, or in this case, does not like this change at all, then we'll of course consider that. But it's way too early to tell. This has only been live for 12 hours.

Carnak
Apprentice
Posts: 45
Joined: 13 Sep 2013 16:58

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Carnak » 08 Mar 2021 02:42

Redblade wrote:
07 Mar 2021 21:27
I'll go ahead and disagree on this being a good change :)

The change, as some of us heralded, completely reverted balance. I play quite a few chars, some even won the lottery with this change, being able to defeat enemies several levels above their size (while wearing only a bit of armour). Others however got totally sunk, to the borderline of play-ability. If any of the immortals even wants to hear concrete facts of my own personal testing, feel free to mail me. I don't really feel like debating them on forums :)
If you have the time, and are so inclined, please send your analysis and input to me, so I can better estimate the effects of the changes we have applied. Much appreciated.
Thalric wrote:
07 Mar 2021 17:03
This is stupid.

I hear of people doing more damage with white hits than with specials.
I see places being cleared in no time at all.

If this isn't changed, then a team with 1 good tanks and a bunch of 2-weapon fighters are able to clear all XP grounds in the realms in an hour or two.
Then how about all the other people.
Are we all supposed to just stand around waiting for stuff to spawn? Or is the idea to make all XP go away so we (finally, would some maybe say) begin attacking each other for lack of other options..?
Indeed, the increased damage may come with effects, such as XP areas running out, and we have a few different solutions to potentially solving these issues.

I have heard from a few that they feel that white hits are doing more damage than specials. Though, due to several factors, this can be considered both true, and untrue. If you have a special scaling from the same stats as white hits, and having reached the maximum experience for your guild, (and a few other variables). If your special has the strongest combative value that an occupational guild is allowed to have, then they should be doing the same damage.

It all depends on character circumstances, special variables and guild composition.
Kvator wrote:
07 Mar 2021 22:10
I kind of like the general direction in which the game is shifting with this change (xp being faster but way riskier, tanks and utility guilds are back in favor -> all in all this may change xping into something a bit more exciting than the scrip-fest we are all used to*), but atm I have problem with the fact that this change boosted things that were already OP (haste, goblins, teleports) so there is prolly a loooot to work on in terms of balance.

* or we just need to refine our scripts lol
I am glad that you like the way we are going. On the note of overpowered aspects of the game. If you have any detailed information on what effects you find imbalanced then you can send me a mail so that I can take note things that players find problematic.

Due to the inherent nature of haste, it should not be unbalanced as is, but there are indeed a number of things we need to fix for the game to reach a desirable balance.
Silon wrote:
07 Mar 2021 23:00
Ok, I just want to say with this change, I'm seeing fighters tank better than me, I'm seeing do more damage than my spells with *white hits* and everyone had to downgrade to new areas so there's little to kill. On top of there being next to nothing to kill efficiently, things seem to be dying too fast, I had to stop in between rooms to heal constantly because one white hit will take a chunk out of my health if it hits and I'm well past supreme con. Even with sup pro parry, sup pro defense, defensive spells, and high con and dex, I'm still outclassed. The initial damage increase was far too large, a little over double shouldn't have been the first thing to implemented in my opinion.

If I was any bigger than I was now my white hits would probably be more useful than my spells, not that I'm getting many white hits, I understand you're trying to close the gap between fighters and casters, but this is a bit much and too major. If you were to make casters weaker than they are now, a lot wouldn't stand a chance in this cruel cruel world. If anyone replies to this, I don't want to hear anything about "well casters were overpowered for so long."No player or game developer should be wanting imbalance in their games. They should always be looking to improve(I know wizards wouldn't say something like that, it's more directed as other players).
The spell system, at its core, assumes that white hits are as they are now. This is how the caster guilds in the game have been balanced. There are however a number of issues in the caster system which need to be altered aswell, which will allow for caster and melee to reach a comparable state.

We have ways of counteracting some of the effects of the damage increase on white hits, if areas are killed too fast or if the game is far too dangerous.

The player input which we receive from the community is imperative for us to create a good game. To be able to reach a desirable balance, we may at times, be required to release impactful changes and tweak them to reach a state which players and wizard alike find acceptable.

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/