Upcoming Changes.

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Grim
Novice
Posts: 2
Joined: 22 Mar 2011 08:01

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Grim » 17 Mar 2021 06:53

While this may be a bit premature, it seems that the updated Mistrial Guild will once again fall into obscurity.

I will confess that I am not now,nor have I ever been a member of that particular guild. But with the new changes, the few Mistrials that I did know (granted that is only two) have made a fast exodus. It appears they have left to join guilds with dodge or evasion skill. I don't see why other "caster" layman guilds wouldn't be similarly affected.

With the emphasis being "White Hits" why would anyone would choose to join a "caster" guild when the dodge/evade skills in other Layman guilds would be much more appealing in a fight.

As far as the occupational guild changes, I will hold off on my judgement for now. I still feel like I have been completely "Nerfed" , But what do I know. I am only a Titan.

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 268
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Thalric » 17 Mar 2021 08:23

Do you mean the Minstrel guild?

"Mistrial" sounds like the first attempt of balance, a week ago.

Snedecor
Wanderer
Posts: 69
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 22:29

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Snedecor » 17 Mar 2021 18:52

Yes minstrels and almost all layman magic guilds and definitely all occ magic guilds where castrated. Hopefully the upcoming changes will help, but I can't see it returning to 'normal' as if it were, why all the changes then...just to get us back to normal?

With the increased challenge in joining magic guilds and maintaining components outside of flair there appears to be no reason to join them.

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Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 1015
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Zhar » 20 Mar 2021 22:34

Layman casters are in a good spot in my opinion. Especially guilds like Warlocks and Elemental Worshippers as they provide you with good defensive tools.

Minstrels should also be fine, they do lack the defensive options of aforementioned guilds but they are also extremely low in maintenance (no need for components, just have to buy tuning forks from time to time) and still have highly valuable abilities. With the recent changes I've discovered that it often takes much longer to recuperate between the fights, which slows you down, Minstrels solve this problem with their healing. They also have plenty of good utility and still remain one of the very few (if not the only) guilds to have a peace spell which is an extremely strong option so I wouldn't scratch them off just yet. With the game turning more towards team effort rather than solo grind Minstrel team-wide buffs are also more valuable now.

Plenty of people are over-reacting to the changes in my opinion. The metagame will definitely shift, but general support laymans are still a great option, especially when you're smaller in size as this lets you contribute to the team even if you're not the best damage dealer or can't tank, as a Minstrel you can still be a force multiplier.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 268
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Thalric » 21 Mar 2021 00:00

I certainly don't see magic layman guilds to be worthless right now.
Rather the opposite.
I would say they are WAY too powerful compared to melee layman guilds.

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Arman
Wizard
Posts: 693
Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Arman » 21 Mar 2021 03:52

Zhar wrote:
20 Mar 2021 22:34
Layman casters are in a good spot in my opinion. Especially guilds like Warlocks and Elemental Worshippers as they provide you with good defensive tools.

Minstrels should also be fine, they do lack the defensive options of aforementioned guilds but they are also extremely low in maintenance (no need for components, just have to buy tuning forks from time to time) and still have highly valuable abilities. With the recent changes I've discovered that it often takes much longer to recuperate between the fights, which slows you down, Minstrels solve this problem with their healing. They also have plenty of good utility and still remain one of the very few (if not the only) guilds to have a peace spell which is an extremely strong option so I wouldn't scratch them off just yet. With the game turning more towards team effort rather than solo grind Minstrel team-wide buffs are also more valuable now.

Plenty of people are over-reacting to the changes in my opinion. The metagame will definitely shift, but general support laymans are still a great option, especially when you're smaller in size as this lets you contribute to the team even if you're not the best damage dealer or can't tank, as a Minstrel you can still be a force multiplier.
They have a peace spell? I am pretty sure I removed that with the recode... can that be confirmed by minstrels?

Snedecor
Wanderer
Posts: 69
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 22:29

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Snedecor » 21 Mar 2021 06:03

Fair points actually. Layman guilds, especially ones that give you defensive abilities and haste, will be of great value.

Healing, while still useful, has taken a back seat to straight evasion though. Healing compared to damage got a downgrade.

Snedecor
Wanderer
Posts: 69
Joined: 09 Feb 2015 22:29

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Snedecor » 21 Mar 2021 06:03

Layman damage-oriented guilds (mainly blademasters) were sunk.

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Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 1015
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Zhar » 21 Mar 2021 07:09

Arman wrote:
21 Mar 2021 03:52
They have a peace spell? I am pretty sure I removed that with the recode... can that be confirmed by minstrels?
Will need a Minstrel to confirm. Been a while since I was one and last time I was there only briefly so didn't get a full array of spells (and pax wasn't top priority for me).
Snedecor wrote:
21 Mar 2021 06:03
Fair points actually. Layman guilds, especially ones that give you defensive abilities and haste, will be of great value.

Healing, while still useful, has taken a back seat to straight evasion though. Healing compared to damage got a downgrade.
Self-healing for layman guilds during combat has definitely been nerfed (which is a good thing in my opinion) but they can still use it effectively to reduce the downtime.

The thing is, with white hits now doing more damage the output is way more stable. Previously you had an opportunity to heal between the big special hits and you didn't lose much in the process (white hits disabled during cast time). Now it's a different story and you not only lose out on your own damage output while attempting to heal you are also getting hurt more with the constant stream of damaging effects instead of burst intervals, making it much harder to outheal the damage.

To be fair, while self-healing was nerfed, the value of healing others has increased.
Snedecor wrote:
21 Mar 2021 06:03
Layman damage-oriented guilds (mainly blademasters) were sunk.
While I agree that the value of damaging laymans (Blademasters, Minotaurs, Raiders) has decreased I think they still have a place but are more niche now. They are definitely not great for running solo now unless you have some other defensive tools but are still valuable for the extra damage provided when in a team setting.

With all the recent changes I think we will see people gravitate towards more specialized builds oriented around team setups with more clearly defined roles (tank, dps, support). If you want to run solo you'll need a more generalist build now with a mixture of offensive and defensive tools (taking the role of off-tank or support in the team I imagine).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Zedex
Beginner
Posts: 10
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 01:18

Re: Upcoming Changes.

Post by Zedex » 21 Mar 2021 10:12

Arman wrote:
21 Mar 2021 03:52
Zhar wrote:
20 Mar 2021 22:34
Layman casters are in a good spot in my opinion. Especially guilds like Warlocks and Elemental Worshippers as they provide you with good defensive tools.

Minstrels should also be fine, they do lack the defensive options of aforementioned guilds but they are also extremely low in maintenance (no need for components, just have to buy tuning forks from time to time) and still have highly valuable abilities. With the recent changes I've discovered that it often takes much longer to recuperate between the fights, which slows you down, Minstrels solve this problem with their healing. They also have plenty of good utility and still remain one of the very few (if not the only) guilds to have a peace spell which is an extremely strong option so I wouldn't scratch them off just yet. With the game turning more towards team effort rather than solo grind Minstrel team-wide buffs are also more valuable now.

Plenty of people are over-reacting to the changes in my opinion. The metagame will definitely shift, but general support laymans are still a great option, especially when you're smaller in size as this lets you contribute to the team even if you're not the best damage dealer or can't tank, as a Minstrel you can still be a force multiplier.
They have a peace spell? I am pretty sure I removed that with the recode... can that be confirmed by minstrels?
Nope, no peace spell.

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