Patch week!

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Carnak
Wanderer
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Sep 2013 16:58

Patch week!

Post by Carnak » 10 Jun 2021 04:13

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Folks and Folkettes!

The patching continues, so I added another guild to the mix,
the Wizards of High Sorcery and the School of High Magic.

Some information regarding the patch and what it does.

1. The patch combines the formulas for the melee and the
   magic systems. (We still need to handle resistance in
   future patching)

2. Spell targetting is not so sticky, which means that if
   your target dies before you launch your spell, your spell
   can carry over to your next target.

3. Stats have been re-aligned, the idea is entirely stolen
   from Arman's earlier suggestion. To make it simple lets
   say that intelligence is comparative to strength and
   discipline is comparative to dexterity. More on wisdom
   in future patches ;)

4. There are other small tidbits in here, like if you cast
   spells against people who are unable to see, you have 
   a greater chance of success.

There are a few future changes which might have a positive
reception.

1. Items will be created to focus your spell power.
2. Resistance needs to be properly implemented.
3. Mana, and the boost it brings. Due to resource having
   a limiting capacity, it will bring inherent boosts.
   This will be based on the sustainability of the spell,
   so a less sustainable spell will likely hit harder.

Best regards,
Carnak
PS. A skill related bug was found in the spell code, which
resulted in lower results than intended for most of you.
You may find that the spells have a higher degree of
success now ;)

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nils
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Re: Patch week!

Post by nils » 10 Jun 2021 11:12

Carnak wrote:
10 Jun 2021 04:13

Code: Select all

We still need to handle resistance in future patching
Does this mean magic resistance will be as readily available as normal armours?

Might I suggest adding some resistance to all items? Some low roll upon spawn? Maybe based on materials?

What about natural resistance? Any chance this can be stat- or average-based, considering physical stats contribute to defence against melee?

What about skill? We have parry, defence and acrobat to protect us from melee attacks, could there be a "resist magic"-skill, trainable to sup layman in any AG and higher in certain guilds?
Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre

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Arman
Wizard
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Joined: 22 Sep 2014 13:15

Re: Patch week!

Post by Arman » 10 Jun 2021 15:18

nils wrote:
10 Jun 2021 11:12
Does this mean magic resistance will be as readily available as normal armours?
No. It means magic resistance damage mitigation needs to scale in a similar fashion to armours. It doesn't do that currently.
nils wrote:
10 Jun 2021 11:12
Might I suggest adding some resistance to all items? Some low roll upon spawn? Maybe based on materials?
It isn't planned at the moment... but not off the cards.
nils wrote:
10 Jun 2021 11:12
What about natural resistance? Any chance this can be stat- or average-based, considering physical stats contribute to defence against melee?
Spell casting success now - for the first time - takes into account the targets stats (or stat) in comparison to the casters. Discipline is the caster dexterity now. A low disciplined caster is going to have a hell of a time successfully casting against a disciplined target.
nils wrote:
10 Jun 2021 11:12
What about skill? We have parry, defence and acrobat to protect us from melee attacks, could there be a "resist magic"-skill, trainable to sup layman in any AG and higher in certain guilds?
There are existing skills that now work as parry and defence do that protect against spells. One is spellcraft. The other you should be able to figure out.

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Redblade
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Joined: 10 Aug 2020 18:51

Re: Patch week!

Post by Redblade » 10 Jun 2021 15:57

Arman wrote:
10 Jun 2021 15:18

Spell casting success now - for the first time - takes into account the targets stats (or stat) in comparison to the casters. Discipline is the caster dexterity now. A low disciplined caster is going to have a hell of a time successfully casting against a disciplined target.
Waait wait hold up. So the stat that most casters have been dumping down into the deepest hells is now important?
Just to quote the game itself:
Elves -
Elves are an ancient and somewhat immortal race. They tend to have
high intelligence and wisdom. Dexterity is not so bad either. They
have troubles with discipline, and their constitution as well as
strength are generally poor.
Gnomes -
Gnomes are a tricky race. They like money and gadgets. They are highly
intelligent, but their wisdom is incredibly low in comparison. They
are rather dexterous and quick, but have more problems with strength
and discipline. Their constitution isn't very good either.
So both most common caster bases (elf and gnome) have a discipline penalty! How's that any good? I really fail to see what was the aim here :/ Please someone of the wizteam, enlighten me. :(
Auta i lómë, Aurë entuluva!
The Night is passing, Day shall come again!

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Amorana
Rising Hero
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Joined: 04 Nov 2013 20:26

Re: Patch week!

Post by Amorana » 10 Jun 2021 15:57

Arman wrote:
10 Jun 2021 15:18
Spell casting success now - for the first time - takes into account the targets stats (or stat) in comparison to the casters. Discipline is the caster dexterity now. A low disciplined caster is going to have a hell of a time successfully casting against a disciplined target.
Generally try to avoid the forums, as I'm sure my asking a simple question will be flamed by someone as whining. But Arman, I'm wondering: How will this be balanced against the fact that casting a spell prevents the caster from doing any white hits, and therefore:
  • Small caster can't do damage while casting.
  • Small caster now misses much more often.
  • Small caster presumably now does less damage with their spells than the old system already because their Int is lower overall and Int=Str now
  • So in general, small caster is now hitting even less often, on fewer potential hits per second, for less damage per second.
As described, this seems like a large scale nerf for low-level casters? It seems as though it will be difficult in this system to play a caster until the upper end of the game.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 270
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Patch week!

Post by Thalric » 10 Jun 2021 18:01

I think discipline should be the new to-hit stat for everyone.
It is a dumpstat for all now, so all would be even in it.
Would remove some of the fighter supreme from the goblin race.

Dex should be evasion..

Amberlee
Myth
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Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Patch week!

Post by Amberlee » 10 Jun 2021 18:17

Thalric wrote:
10 Jun 2021 18:01
I think discipline should be the new to-hit stat for everyone.
It is a dumpstat for all now, so all would be even in it.
Would remove some of the fighter supreme from the goblin race.

Dex should be evasion..
Or you know.
Could just balance the races properly.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 270
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Patch week!

Post by Thalric » 10 Jun 2021 18:33

Amberlee wrote:
10 Jun 2021 18:17
Thalric wrote:
10 Jun 2021 18:01
I think discipline should be the new to-hit stat for everyone.
It is a dumpstat for all now, so all would be even in it.
Would remove some of the fighter supreme from the goblin race.

Dex should be evasion..
Or you know.
Could just balance the races properly.
Absolutely... but that wasnt the subject.

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Cherek
Site Admin
Posts: 3210
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:36

Re: Patch week!

Post by Cherek » 10 Jun 2021 18:35

Redblade wrote:
10 Jun 2021 15:57
So both most common caster bases (elf and gnome) have a discipline penalty! How's that any good? I really fail to see what was the aim here :/ Please someone of the wizteam, enlighten me. :(
The aim was to make DIS more useful. Having three physical stats that mainly effect melee combat, and three mental stats that mainly effects caster combat makes a lot of sense game design-wise I think.

Regarding races, this opens up for more races being decent casters. And just because elves and gnomes are weaker in DIS doesn't not mean they are BAD casters. If you combine INT + WIS + DIS both elves and gnomes still get very good "mentals average".

We of course realize that generally players don't focus on DIS, but maybe that will change now...? Which is a good thing too I think.

And like I mentioned in my State of the Donut post, my hope is still that we will rebalance the races "before Christmas". I don't really think we should have "caster races" and "melee races" as we have now (at least not as apparent as now), and I don't think some races should be simply worse than others either.

But a good first step to more balanced races is making DIS actually relevant. That all stats are useful is a good first step towards more balanced races, and gives us more options if/when rebalancing them.

Thalric
Expert
Posts: 270
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Patch week!

Post by Thalric » 10 Jun 2021 19:22

The only "melee" stat that isn't as important to a caster as it is to a fighter, is strength.
A caster without dex and con is dead meat.

So... in a name of fairness, how are fighters penalized for not having any mental stats?

Do you see the completely insane setup that fighters need to rely on only 3 stats and casters 5?

If you have 100 avg that could be 150, 150, 150, 50, 50, 50... for a fighter, in the age old setup. (To make a point)
For a caster that would "equally" make 50, 110, 110, 110, 110, 110.

And I don't know about your ideas, but the difference from 110 to 150 is quite relevant.

So... how do you make casters non-reliant on physical skills, to level the playing field?

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