Changes to Teleport

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Thalric
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by Thalric » 05 Nov 2021 20:19

You didn't adjust teleport.
You made it completely useless.

But you make the game, so you decide.
I am sure everyone who didn't have teleport is more than happy.

zizuph
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by zizuph » 05 Nov 2021 22:32

For those that are interested:

If a player is able to reduce 10 minutes of travel time, once per hour, they can be in combat for 60 minutes, instead of 50. This is effectively a 20% boost in combat time. (Note this also applies to herbing and other activities).

If a player is able to reduce 10 minutes of travel time, once per two hours, they can be in combat for 120 minutes, instead of 110. This is effectively a 9% boost in combat time.

If a player is able to reduce 10 minutes of travel time, and empties a combat zone every 20 minutes, they can be in combat for the full 30, instead of 20 minutes. This is effectively a 50% boost in combat time.

In choosing the two hour time frame, the guilds that have teleportation do retain a small potential advantage over those that do not. At a one hour cooldown, that number goes to 20%, and with no cooldown, the 50% boost was quite viable, and could even be higher (if the teleporting team arrived at an already-cleared area).

I personally do not like taking things away from players, which is something that I said to Cherek on my first day helping out. I wish there were an easier solution to this, but the models above shows why it was such a problem. Not everybody got to a 50% boost, no. But unless the saved time in combat is accounted for, those with teleport have a growth benefit that others do not, and that is typically charged with combat aid, which also has caps.

Drazson
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by Drazson » 05 Nov 2021 22:50

You used the phrase "combat time". Is this a new balance concern? Or, rather, since it obviously is, are mount-owning racial guilds, pirates, a certain non-magic layman that can pop up in various places et cetera queued up for a nerf, considering they enable more "combat time"?

Furthermore, guilds that have no scaling with STR and thus cannot carry as much, ergo fatigue much easier, and cannot speedwalk past the entire donut 3 times in a couple seconds, are to expect a buff? Or nerf for the rest, to cater to this new balance concern?

Thank you

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nils
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by nils » 05 Nov 2021 23:38

Drazson wrote:
05 Nov 2021 22:50
Furthermore, guilds that have no scaling with STR and thus cannot carry as much, ergo fatigue much easier, and cannot speedwalk past the entire donut 3 times in a couple seconds, are to expect a buff? Or nerf for the rest, to cater to this new balance concern?

Thank you

You're actually serious with this?
Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre

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nils
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by nils » 05 Nov 2021 23:43

Thank you Zizuph.

This change affects me greatly and I'll be suffering severe withdrawal for a long ass while.
The problem, however, is mine and even though it'll hurt, I'm 100% sure this benefits the game as a whole.

Good job!
Last edited by nils on 05 Nov 2021 23:46, edited 1 time in total.
Nil Mortifi Sine Lucre

Thalric
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by Thalric » 05 Nov 2021 23:46

So, let's take a team of DA/warlocks.

They fly to Sparkle and sail to Terel and clear GK, TT, ogres, dark elves, ribos... then they mount their dragons and fly to Mithas (it is a set location, so no delay/cooldown.)
They clear that, mount their dragons again and fly to Icewall to kill minotaurs. (same as before).
Onto the dragons again and fly to Solace and go kill qualinost.
When they're done with that, they all port to Faerun and slay the ogres there, and go enter their portal to ME. Kill some ents, dunlendings and CA.
From there they jump on their dragons and fly to Sparkle, board a ship to Terel (to repeat it all over again), or perhaps to Kabal to slay it all or just Thanars.
Back to Terel and do it all over again. And all they had to do was sail twice.

But I see that it is fair to remove teleport from fulltime casters, only to give it into the hands of demon-worshipping warriors. (or whatever those patrons are).
And all it takes for a DA, is a 30 second wait, or some such, for the dragon to arrive, and then a 2-4 min transit to the next location.
If you make one of them a mariner, it will be even better, since now the Bloodsea is so big you can basically sail to every part of Krynn.

zizuph
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by zizuph » 06 Nov 2021 00:14

Drazson wrote:
05 Nov 2021 22:50
You used the phrase "combat time". Is this a new balance concern? Or, rather, since it obviously is, are mount-owning racial guilds, pirates, a certain non-magic layman that can pop up in various places et cetera queued up for a nerf, considering they enable more "combat time"?
No, the experience rate gains of guilds has always been a balance concern. In just the same way we look at the time saved through mounts, as well as the time spent collecting herbs and components to power spells, for example.

As far as I am aware, every guild can choose to become a mariner in their craft slot, if they wish to sail the seas and enjoy that advantage.

Chanele
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by Chanele » 06 Nov 2021 00:23

@Thalric, Draczon, Dan

You guys are smart people, why are you trying to prove us otherwise?

You have had this team portal/portal ability for far too long, just accept the changes and move on. You managed to benefit a lot during the last years, be grateful for that.

Upon request from all parties the warlocks has also been subject to changes. I dont know about dragons but they are limited to one domain, take just as long time as one ship. I think this is what we shall aim for in a global balance.

Cheers,
/Chanele

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Cherek
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by Cherek » 06 Nov 2021 03:54

Thalric: As you can read on the common board, the "home teleports" also have a cooldown now, and the Warlock portals are also slower now (I am guessing you hadn't read that when posting this). Dragons have, as Chanele pointed out, already several limitations. You can't decide where to go freely, they dont work everywhere, and it takes some time both to call for it and travel. It's convenient, but the actual benefit in time is usually quite small. And w did consider the DA dragons and similar ways of travel, and some minor adjustments have been made to some of these abilities as well. But overall we felt these abilities already had reasonable limitations in place, making them useful, but not too good. We adjusted the teleports because we felt they were too good.

Yes, it's no fun to have abilities nerfed, and I don't like it more than Zizuph or Arman, but, we don't do this to make the game less fun for YOU, we do it to make the game more fun and fair for _everyone_. That it made the game less fun for you is an unfortunate side effect, and I wish we didn't have to nerf things ever, but, that's not really realistic. All games patch things, nerf things, upgrade things, etc. In Genesis, the AoB team's role is to adjust things that they notice are too powerful/too weak. In this particular case, we've known for a long time that we needed to adjust teleports, and thankfully we now have a more active AoB team again who can work at fixing this, and hopefully more changes will come soon. Some of you will like some of the changes, others will not. We're happy to listen to feedback, though.

Also, you're saying teleport is completely useless. What makes it useless? I get that you are upset right now, but if you truly think we have made it useless, so that you would prefer to not have it all, then we need more information about why. If you don't want to share this here, just send us a mail.

Personally, if I was a teleporting player, I would of course feel severely weakened by this, and probably be upset as well. But I would likely still use my teleport now and then, when I really need to/want to save some time. For example if I badly needed to teleport my team somewhere. Like during some sort of emergency, or if I simply need to get me/us somewhere far away really fast. It also still sounds like a good way to start the day, and get to where I am going quickly, for example if I don't have too much time to play. I can think of quite a lot of uses... even with the cooldown.

I think the above examples are perfectly reasonable ways to use teleportation abilities. However, using teleport to link major grinding areas (effectively creating one huge grinding area), using it to bypass boss guards, or using it as a quite powerful PVP tool, among other things, was just too much for a "utility" ability, which teleport is. It should be a convenient thing that provides a small benefit, but the benefit ended up being just too big.

Drazson
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Re: Changes to Teleport

Post by Drazson » 06 Nov 2021 07:19

Chanele wrote:
06 Nov 2021 00:23
You guys are smart people, why are you trying to prove us otherwise?
I was indeed wondering what passes for proper etiquette nowadays. Excellent.

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