Zhar the Questmaster

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Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 778
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zhar » 14 Mar 2014 04:19

Since I've been recently working on adding my first quest to the game I've been looking through the code of some quests to check out how it's done. It's pretty disheartening to admit that but I really sympathize with people who resent quests now. Don't get me wrong, as a player I've always enjoyed questing and figuring them out. The thing is, since I'm a wizard now I get to see them from a new perspective (ie: most of the time it boils down to someone having good idea but being lazy, I can relate to that) and get an insight to how some of the quests out there are inherently flawed either by bad design or laziness of their creator.

Any way, if you think that you've encountered a quest that has weird/unorthodox/buggy syntax, please do let me know by IN GAME mail. I'll try to fix them if I can.

What I want to achieve through that, is not just making quests more accessible, but also making quest solutions obsolete. We already have the full list of quests available in the game (which is more than most MUDs do), but what I'd like to see is that quest solutions that have been passed player-to-player over the years to not be so impotant. I want the quests to be an enjoyable experience and not a chore. I want to give all players, both new and old a chance to enjoy them.

I'm not the most dedicated or competent coder by any stretch of imagination, but I do love Genesis, I've been playing it for upteen years, coding stuff for it for several and would like to continue both. It's a big part of my life, and I imagine of many others', and I'd like to keep doing what I can to uphold it and make it better. Unfortunately, with the project this big it's too much for one person to handle so if you'd be so kind and help me, I think we can make it better.

If you have any complaints about existing quests, any ideas to improve them, please contact me and I'll do my best to make it a reality. I don't promise anything, especially anything happening quickly, all I can promise you is that I'll do my best to do so.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Draugor
Myth
Posts: 1780
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 00:14

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Draugor » 14 Mar 2014 18:17

Zhar wrote:Since I've been recently working on adding my first quest to the game I've been looking through the code of some quests to check out how it's done. It's pretty disheartening to admit that but I really sympathize with people who resent quests now. Don't get me wrong, as a player I've always enjoyed questing and figuring them out. The thing is, since I'm a wizard now I get to see them from a new perspective (ie: most of the time it boils down to someone having good idea but being lazy, I can relate to that) and get an insight to how some of the quests out there are inherently flawed either by bad design or laziness of their creator.

Any way, if you think that you've encountered a quest that has weird/unorthodox/buggy syntax, please do let me know by IN GAME mail. I'll try to fix them if I can.

What I want to achieve through that, is not just making quests more accessible, but also making quest solutions obsolete. We already have the full list of quests available in the game (which is more than most MUDs do), but what I'd like to see is that quest solutions that have been passed player-to-player over the years to not be so impotant. I want the quests to be an enjoyable experience and not a chore. I want to give all players, both new and old a chance to enjoy them.

I'm not the most dedicated or competent coder by any stretch of imagination, but I do love Genesis, I've been playing it for upteen years, coding stuff for it for several and would like to continue both. It's a big part of my life, and I imagine of many others', and I'd like to keep doing what I can to uphold it and make it better. Unfortunately, with the project this big it's too much for one person to handle so if you'd be so kind and help me, I think we can make it better.

If you have any complaints about existing quests, any ideas to improve them, please contact me and I'll do my best to make it a reality. I don't promise anything, especially anything happening quickly, all I can promise you is that I'll do my best to do so.

You going to get rid of all the bullshit quests that require capital letters? Cause some quests do and other dont wich is pretty goddamn annoying when yer a newbie

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Kiara » 14 Mar 2014 19:01

Zhar: I have filed countless of typo and bug reports during the years regarding quests. Maybe you can check through that list? I might not the the only one who have done the same either.

Unfortunately I havent quested for awhile (out of quests) so I dont remember which ones I found particularly annoying. But if you look through the bug and typo files you might find some of my old comments!

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Zhar
Wizard
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zhar » 14 Mar 2014 20:02

Kiara wrote:Zhar: I have filed countless of typo and bug reports during the years regarding quests. Maybe you can check through that list? I might not the the only one who have done the same either.

Unfortunately I havent quested for awhile (out of quests) so I dont remember which ones I found particularly annoying. But if you look through the bug and typo files you might find some of my old comments!
A couple of problems with that:
1. I don't have access to all the bug and typo files out there.
2. There's a gazillion of them and each contains a gazillion entries, it would take forever for me to filter through them to find specific quest-related things and then I'd have to filter all that for most relevant stuff...

That's why I've created this topic, so that if you know of a particularly annoying quest part, you can mail me in the game with the specifics (if it's not very specific I think it's fine to post it here) and I can get to fixing it as soon as I can. I don't want to go through all the quests (not yet at least), just start with the major offenders and then maybe move towards standardizing others.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Kiara » 14 Mar 2014 22:30

Zhar wrote:
Kiara wrote:Zhar: I have filed countless of typo and bug reports during the years regarding quests. Maybe you can check through that list? I might not the the only one who have done the same either.

Unfortunately I havent quested for awhile (out of quests) so I dont remember which ones I found particularly annoying. But if you look through the bug and typo files you might find some of my old comments!
A couple of problems with that:
1. I don't have access to all the bug and typo files out there.
2. There's a gazillion of them and each contains a gazillion entries, it would take forever for me to filter through them to find specific quest-related things and then I'd have to filter all that for most relevant stuff...

That's why I've created this topic, so that if you know of a particularly annoying quest part, you can mail me in the game with the specifics (if it's not very specific I think it's fine to post it here) and I can get to fixing it as soon as I can. I don't want to go through all the quests (not yet at least), just start with the major offenders and then maybe move towards standardizing others.
Well its the best I can offer. I am not gonna redo all the quests to find bugs... sorry...:)

Get access and search for my name? Maybe others have filed reports too mainly about quests, and they can let you know as well, and you can search for their names too?

Otherwise you'll probably just get feedback starting from now, at best. And only from those who happen to see this topic. Which probably is just a fraction of the feedback that already exists in your bug and typo files somewhere.

Isn't the bug and typo report for this purpose? I mean we have always been told "file a bug report". I usually take time to do so when I find bugs or typos. If wizards who wanna help dont have access to those reports, and those who do, don't use them, why are we then making reports? Why are we being told to? Is it better to write about problems here? If bug and typo reports arent even looked at?

Jooli
Adventurer
Posts: 98
Joined: 14 Jun 2011 16:01

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Jooli » 14 Mar 2014 23:04

Ferrets in Ansalon, or maybe I'm just blind.
The wallenwood leaf to the Shaman in Solace.
Also the gnome secureboard I've completed many times, never worked for me.

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Zhar
Wizard
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zhar » 15 Mar 2014 01:00

Jooli wrote:Ferrets in Ansalon, or maybe I'm just blind.
The wallenwood leaf to the Shaman in Solace.
Also the gnome secureboard I've completed many times, never worked for me.
Ferrets is one of the quests that gave me the idea in the first place :) Will look into others too.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Jooli
Adventurer
Posts: 98
Joined: 14 Jun 2011 16:01

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Jooli » 15 Mar 2014 01:12

At the moment I'm enjoying the quests in Isengard. Been deaths door twice now, but no death traps, and good clues. This is how quests should be.

Kiara
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Kiara » 15 Mar 2014 03:11

Zhar wrote:
Jooli wrote:Ferrets in Ansalon, or maybe I'm just blind.
The wallenwood leaf to the Shaman in Solace.
Also the gnome secureboard I've completed many times, never worked for me.
Ferrets is one of the quests that gave me the idea in the first place :) Will look into others too.
Navarre (I think) fixed some crazy typos in the ferret quest a couple of years ago. It was insanely annoying before that. I think it's pretty okay now? Or?

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Zhar
Wizard
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zhar » 15 Mar 2014 04:49

Just looking at the code the quest is perfectly solvable, there are no typos etc. The thing with it is that syntax is rather complex and not intuitive for most things you need to do. Also, the hints are scarce and don't really help you much with the syntax issues. I remember that back in the day it took me several tries over a long period of time to complete this quest for a meagre reward. It frustrated the hell out of me too.

It's something that Gorboth taught me, that hints aside, you should try and anticipate various scenarios and accomodate that in your work. So, for example, if you want someone to be able to <take something from the container>, you should also add failsafes for when someone tries to <take something from container> or <from a container>. The difference in the syntax is slight here, but it can make the experience a whole lot smoother for the person involved. The ferret quest does not allow for any deviations from the long, very specific syntax and doesn't provide hints to it either. I think that is something that should be remedied and can be done relatively easily.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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