Zhar the Questmaster

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Kiara
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Kiara » 15 Mar 2014 06:10

Zhar wrote:Just looking at the code the quest is perfectly solvable, there are no typos etc. The thing with it is that syntax is rather complex and not intuitive for most things you need to do. Also, the hints are scarce and don't really help you much with the syntax issues. I remember that back in the day it took me several tries over a long period of time to complete this quest for a meagre reward. It frustrated the hell out of me too.

It's something that Gorboth taught me, that hints aside, you should try and anticipate various scenarios and accomodate that in your work. So, for example, if you want someone to be able to <take something from the container>, you should also add failsafes for when someone tries to <take something from container> or <from a container>. The difference in the syntax is slight here, but it can make the experience a whole lot smoother for the person involved. The ferret quest does not allow for any deviations from the long, very specific syntax and doesn't provide hints to it either. I think that is something that should be remedied and can be done relatively easily.
Absolutely. That goes for almost all quests in the game, to some degree... but some are worse than others. A few years back the ferret quest was even more syntax-precise than it is now I think. But I dont know, I did it years ago when it was truly a pretty horrific experience (sorry whoever made it), and then someone said it had been fixed. But I dont know. Maybe it hasn't, maybe it needs more fixing.

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Zhar
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zhar » 15 Mar 2014 16:02

Imagine a situation like this:

Code: Select all

In a barn.
A haystack.
>
Obviously, the first thing that comes to your mind will be <explore the haystack in the corner>, will it not?

That's the ferret quest in a pill.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

Kiara
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Joined: 03 May 2013 16:20

Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Kiara » 15 Mar 2014 16:34

Zhar wrote:Imagine a situation like this:

Code: Select all

In a barn.
A haystack.
>
Obviously, the first thing that comes to your mind will be <explore the haystack in the corner>, will it not?

That's the ferret quest in a pill.
I am not sure why you trying to argue this. I dont disagree with you at all. What I am saying is I thought the ferret quest was fixed. but if you say it isn't, then it isnt.

Zar
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zar » 16 Mar 2014 07:11

Zhar wrote:
Kiara wrote:Zhar: I have filed countless of typo and bug reports during the years regarding quests. Maybe you can check through that list? I might not the the only one who have done the same either.

Unfortunately I havent quested for awhile (out of quests) so I dont remember which ones I found particularly annoying. But if you look through the bug and typo files you might find some of my old comments!
A couple of problems with that:
1. I don't have access to all the bug and typo files out there.
2. There's a gazillion of them and each contains a gazillion entries, it would take forever for me to filter through them to find specific quest-related things and then I'd have to filter all that for most relevant stuff...

That's why I've created this topic, so that if you know of a particularly annoying quest part, you can mail me in the game with the specifics (if it's not very specific I think it's fine to post it here) and I can get to fixing it as soon as I can. I don't want to go through all the quests (not yet at least), just start with the major offenders and then maybe move towards standardizing others.
1. If you have no access to bug/typo file. most probably you won't have access to quest files
2. "grep Kiara"

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Snowrose
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Snowrose » 16 Mar 2014 12:12

I dont have exact detail bit i know some friends who have had issues with the fishing quest in shire where they got all the stuff but couldn't finish the quest. or got a ring for hunthor and were told they had to get it themself and they had. barrow down a friend had the right answer but it was not accepted.

In some of these cases ive told friends it is because steath had been used at some point in the quest and it seems to bug out the rest of the quest. from what ive seen doing the quests again after reboot with no stealth can fix issue. but this can be very frusterating for these people because they have the syntax correct,


just something to look into :)
Image

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Amorana
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Amorana » 17 Mar 2014 01:57

I just hope in "making syntaxes more friendly" you aren't removing the old syntax at the same time, thereby making the quest more confusing / unsolvable to those who are used to the way the current syntax works. I know I'd be upset if "find the needle in the haystack" had worked for 10-12 years and now I found myself running through iterations of "find the needle in the haystack", "find needle in haystack", "find needle", "search haystack", "search hay", "search mud", etc. until finding the one that you deem to be more syntactically friendly.
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

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Zhar
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Zhar » 17 Mar 2014 03:47

Amorana wrote:I just hope in "making syntaxes more friendly" you aren't removing the old syntax at the same time, thereby making the quest more confusing / unsolvable to those who are used to the way the current syntax works. I know I'd be upset if "find the needle in the haystack" had worked for 10-12 years and now I found myself running through iterations of "find the needle in the haystack", "find needle in haystack", "find needle", "search haystack", "search hay", "search mud", etc. until finding the one that you deem to be more syntactically friendly.
No, I am merely making the text you receive from the game more explicit as to what you should do in cases the syntax is non-intuitive, very specific etc.

Example:

Code: Select all

In a barn.
A haystack.
> exa haystack
It is a huge stack of hay. You wonder what could you find in it if you were to <explore> it.
> explore
Explore what? The haystack in the corner?
> explore the haystack in the corner
OUCH! A needle just pricked your finger. You decide to pick it up.
You know, just some more guidance.


I'm still working on it, Gorboth sent me some files regarding proper quest creation to wchich all quests in Genesis should some (distant I think) day adhere to.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

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Amorana
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Re: Zhar the Questmaster

Post by Amorana » 17 Mar 2014 14:50

Zhar wrote:
Amorana wrote:I just hope in "making syntaxes more friendly" you aren't removing the old syntax at the same time, thereby making the quest more confusing / unsolvable to those who are used to the way the current syntax works. I know I'd be upset if "find the needle in the haystack" had worked for 10-12 years and now I found myself running through iterations of "find the needle in the haystack", "find needle in haystack", "find needle", "search haystack", "search hay", "search mud", etc. until finding the one that you deem to be more syntactically friendly.
No, I am merely making the text you receive from the game more explicit as to what you should do in cases the syntax is non-intuitive, very specific etc.

Example:

Code: Select all

In a barn.
A haystack.
> exa haystack
It is a huge stack of hay. You wonder what could you find in it if you were to <explore> it.
> explore
Explore what? The haystack in the corner?
> explore the haystack in the corner
OUCH! A needle just pricked your finger. You decide to pick it up.
You know, just some more guidance.


I'm still working on it, Gorboth sent me some files regarding proper quest creation to wchich all quests in Genesis should some (distant I think) day adhere to.
Good, good. I just sort of envisioned it being possible to shoot ourselves in the foot attempting to fix an issue and creating it again. There's definitely room to make things a little more hint-friendly!
Zhar wrote: "Man, this guild I'm in is so god damn powerful! Please nerf or I'll have to leave it because it's no fun any more..."

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