Making non-magical items always save

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Cherek
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Cherek » 23 Aug 2016 19:41

Morgzaash: Yeah younger player will notice the change the most, for those who use mostly magic items it will be business as usual. However I could imagine some people might opt to instead use some good non magical items for convenience too?

Kirsach: That's a very good point. We should probably consider some sort of standard magical description add-on. Or, we could perhaps change the "save messages", so that items either glow faintly (saves once), or glow brightly (saves forever), or something like that?

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Ody
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Ody » 23 Aug 2016 20:18

kirsach wrote:Change in a very good direction. One small remark. There should be a command that tells if the item is magical or not. To be sure that the item doesnt save because is magical and not because it extend limit of items one can save/bind with him.
Well. That's what the smiths <sminspect> is good for. If anyone can tell a magical item doesn't it take away one of the useful functions of sminspect?
All I am is your Van Gogh; I paint our dreams on the golden coast
I stay up high, flying solo; Don't come too close
I just ghost
I told you I am the new Poe; I sold my soul to the radio
I steal your heart in the shadows; Don't come too close
I just ghost

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Cherek
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Cherek » 23 Aug 2016 23:56

Ody wrote:
kirsach wrote:Change in a very good direction. One small remark. There should be a command that tells if the item is magical or not. To be sure that the item doesnt save because is magical and not because it extend limit of items one can save/bind with him.
Well. That's what the smiths <sminspect> is good for. If anyone can tell a magical item doesn't it take away one of the useful functions of sminspect?
Possibly. Can smiths ID what type of magic it has? Or just if it IS magic? Yes or no?

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Ody
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Ody » 24 Aug 2016 00:55

Cherek wrote:
Ody wrote:
kirsach wrote:Change in a very good direction. One small remark. There should be a command that tells if the item is magical or not. To be sure that the item doesnt save because is magical and not because it extend limit of items one can save/bind with him.
Well. That's what the smiths <sminspect> is good for. If anyone can tell a magical item doesn't it take away one of the useful functions of sminspect?
Possibly. Can smiths ID what type of magic it has? Or just if it IS magic? Yes or no?
sminspect skull
You study the armour carefully.
This is what you notice:
There is a dark and evil look about this helmet. At first glance, it actually appears to be a great black skull. However, the jawbone is missing, and has been replaced by a dark leather strap used to fix the skull securely on the wearer's head. The mottled and boiling texture of the surface suggests that this skull was dipped into a black fluid of some kind, which has since hardened, and perhaps through dark magic cooled harder than steel. The skull itself looks like it once belonged to a large ogre.
It has been cleaned, polished, oiled, and tended to by professionals.
It looks like it is in prime condition.
You consider that the weight is 2.7 kilograms and you consider its volume is about 740 milliliters. You estimate its worth to 1 platinum and 1 gold coins. It rejects being sold as it is keep protected.
The great black skull is made to be worn on your head.
This is an extremely well-made armour which would protect you very well.
This armour is most likely enchanted.
All I am is your Van Gogh; I paint our dreams on the golden coast
I stay up high, flying solo; Don't come too close
I just ghost
I told you I am the new Poe; I sold my soul to the radio
I steal your heart in the shadows; Don't come too close
I just ghost

Draugor
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Draugor » 24 Aug 2016 14:56

Ya need a morgul mage if you want to know more than that from the magical part I believe

Val
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Val » 24 Aug 2016 15:49

Well, sorry to say this, but while it is good you consider how to help newbies I feel it is a move in wrong direction. The problem is, 99% of eq worth saving IS magical. As I see it, donate boxes are full of eq usable for newbies, so saving any crap on them wont change much. Perhaps some more focus on education where these boxes are and how to use them would be good? There is a great risk that the first nice item some newbie will REALLY like and want to keep will be the magical one - BIG disappoitment instead of encouraging. I'd rather look for a possibility of saving 1-3 better items, than load of crap.

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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Draugor » 25 Aug 2016 14:57

Val wrote:Well, sorry to say this, but while it is good you consider how to help newbies I feel it is a move in wrong direction. The problem is, 99% of eq worth saving IS magical. As I see it, donate boxes are full of eq usable for newbies, so saving any crap on them wont change much. Perhaps some more focus on education where these boxes are and how to use them would be good? There is a great risk that the first nice item some newbie will REALLY like and want to keep will be the magical one - BIG disappoitment instead of encouraging. I'd rather look for a possibility of saving 1-3 better items, than load of crap.
I'd more say that they should make gear save or not depending on hit/pen and Armour value, for instance, items of... splendid sword quality and below, can save? Flaming red chain and below aswell?

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Ody
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Ody » 25 Aug 2016 16:57

I'd more say that they should make gear save or not depending on hit/pen and Armour value, for instance, items of... splendid sword quality and below, can save? Flaming red chain and below aswell?
Agreed, no one becomes a personal rack and all that saves is crap items anyway. Good for newbies and that's it, since that's who this rule was designed to help after all.
All I am is your Van Gogh; I paint our dreams on the golden coast
I stay up high, flying solo; Don't come too close
I just ghost
I told you I am the new Poe; I sold my soul to the radio
I steal your heart in the shadows; Don't come too close
I just ghost

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varian
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by varian » 26 Aug 2016 16:22

The motivation for my idea was to make the game more playable for newbies. There have been many newbies who have played our game and enjoyed it enough to come back a second time, only to find that their equipment was gone. Unfortunately, this has caused many of them to not return to Genesis.

Many of these newbies never left the tutorial, meaning that there was no possibility of larger players being able to assist them. They spent (in their opinion) a bunch of time and struggle to get (again in their opinion) "really good" weapons and armours, only to find that they were gone (or partially gone) on their next login.

This was not a single complaint by a single upset newbie, but instead a string of comments and complaints over a longer stretch of time by many.

The issue of saving equipment is not a new one, and it has been a constant source of debate in Genesis since I started playing here in 1993. I do understand the various (not both.... there are far more than two) sides of the argument, and it is not a simple solution. It brings up a lot of problems (in general) with the balance of the game. Having every single player of any reasonable history/size (which could happen in theory) all using the best possible items in the game has the potential of making the game less interesting. This is a debate that could go off in a dozen directions and be discussed at length.... but... that has already happened many times before in the past, and still continues to happen (at least, up in the land of the wizards it does).

So, my suggestion was designed to deal with two problems - one major, and one minor. The major problem was already identified in this post - I want to add to the population of the game and grow it. I think this is one small thing that can help slightly with newbies. The minor problem is dealing with things like crashes and armageddon, where it might be that 'everything was lost'. The higher end of non-magical items is perhaps not the most desirable for the bigger players, but they are certainly more than usable to replenish empty racks.

Does this mean that this is an 'end solution' designed to make everyone happy? No. It is to help deal with those two problems, and it is something that I think everyone can agree on as a base. There might some things to trouble-shoot, but it is not something that seems to hurt the game in the eyes of most people I have spoken with. They might wish for more, but having this is generally not seen as harmful to the game - and by several people, it is seen as something potentially helpful.

Anyways, if anyone is able to consider ways this concept could be abused, or how it could possibly be harmful, I would love to hear about it - either here, or by mailing me in-game. I would like to trouble-shoot everything as much as possible before getting into detailed conversations with the rest of the admin. upstairs.

Varian

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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Manglor » 26 Aug 2016 16:44

Outstanding idea gents. Huge upside, no noticeable downside and will keep lots of people happy. Bravo!

Now, what about Ogre gear? Magic or otherwise. Deliberately expensive and hard to obtain. Never saves, but what if it stayed on you all arma? That way you don't have to have a private drop room, or run the risk of having others taking it all the time? IMO Ogre crafted gear is meant to be for you alone anyway. Would this work?

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