Making non-magical items always save

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Zestana
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Zestana » 27 Aug 2016 20:15

Shitty change. (Don't worry I'm explaining why)

I don't think it'll be as easy as you think classifying non magic vs magic gear into this category.... and in many instances like Hektor mentioned some non-magic armours are far superior to anything else you can get in game... for example the majority of greaves/bracers in the game that are top tier are non magic. As are many of the cloaks.

Do you plan on overhauling all gear that is to good to fit into this system to make it magical? Seems to me like noobs get to spoiled with awesome items that probably are magical in nature by bigger friends and then they get mad when they're gone. If that's the case nowadays then your solution fixes nothing.

Better solution, have the ability to purchase items of standard caliber so that anyone can gear up and go have fun... Oh wait that exists at various smiths in the realms. Why not just make it a little better, or involve some player interaction/quest that will allow those items to be better than what they normally are.

If you're going to go this route then please just make all "non-magic gear" unbreakable too so but leave it classified as nonmagic.... that we don't have to be bothered to replace it when it breaks. K thanks.
The opinions in these posts are not that of the player Zestana but that of the player Ilrahil. Having had my account removed due to irreconcilable differences with the administration it is the only way I am able to offer my opinion.

Zestana
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Zestana » 27 Aug 2016 20:17

varian wrote:The motivation for my idea was to make the game more playable for newbies. There have been many newbies who have played our game and enjoyed it enough to come back a second time, only to find that their equipment was gone. Unfortunately, this has caused many of them to not return to Genesis.

Many of these newbies never left the tutorial, meaning that there was no possibility of larger players being able to assist them. They spent (in their opinion) a bunch of time and struggle to get (again in their opinion) "really good" weapons and armours, only to find that they were gone (or partially gone) on their next login.
I'm sorry.... You are basing the change from what it sounds like specifically toward a group of people who weren't even able to make it out of the Tutorial or see what actual magic gear could do? That's a flaw in the tutorial and easily rectified that everything on you while still in it glows.
The opinions in these posts are not that of the player Zestana but that of the player Ilrahil. Having had my account removed due to irreconcilable differences with the administration it is the only way I am able to offer my opinion.

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nils
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by nils » 27 Aug 2016 20:32

Actually, the helm/greaves/bracers-issue is a real one. One could maybe refrain from calling it a shitty change though, because I think it's a good one - even though it goes against the 20-odd old year thing that makes Genesis a harder game than most.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

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Arman
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Arman » 28 Aug 2016 08:46

nils wrote:Actually, the helm/greaves/bracers-issue is a real one. One could maybe refrain from calling it a shitty change though, because I think it's a good one - even though it goes against the 20-odd old year thing that makes Genesis a harder game than most.
I agree, still a good change. The issue sounds like it is with certain helm/greaves/bracer items.

Sykil
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Sykil » 28 Aug 2016 15:37

this change is very good

what is one oproblem for let people keep non magics? zero is said here

do this
Somebody send this to me when I start:

Genesis Start Guide

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varian
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by varian » 08 Sep 2016 21:39

Zestana wrote:
varian wrote:The motivation for my idea was to make the game more playable for newbies. There have been many newbies who have played our game and enjoyed it enough to come back a second time, only to find that their equipment was gone. Unfortunately, this has caused many of them to not return to Genesis.

Many of these newbies never left the tutorial, meaning that there was no possibility of larger players being able to assist them. They spent (in their opinion) a bunch of time and struggle to get (again in their opinion) "really good" weapons and armours, only to find that they were gone (or partially gone) on their next login.
I'm sorry.... You are basing the change from what it sounds like specifically toward a group of people who weren't even able to make it out of the Tutorial or see what actual magic gear could do? That's a flaw in the tutorial and easily rectified that everything on you while still in it glows.
First of all Zestana, thanks for the feedback, I will disagree with some of your points here and I don't want you to feel that I'm upset or angry :)

For some perspective, I first started playing Genesis about 24 years ago. While the online-gaming world has evolved in many ways since then, Genesis has only made minimal changes, and in general has remained static. As a long-time player and supporter of Genesis, I would like to see more new blood into the game... and to keep the old blood coming back :)

There are many, many things that could be debated on how to do this. Lots of things have been discussed, but there is generally a lot of disagreement and it makes it difficult to get a change done. This is just one thing... not everything.

This has actually been a very long-debated topic. Why can't people just keep their equipment? It is pretty-much standard for online games to allow this. We went through many different stages of this, and settled on the current "some things 'glow' and some things 'dont', so you can keep some of the stuff".

I can see that arguments on both sides of that debate, and to simplify it, on one side: Its just equipment that someone paid a price for (invested time, risked a death in combat, whatever....) so after earning it, why are you taking it away from me? on the other side: If we let people keep equipment, they are just going to take all of the good stuff and make it impossible for other players to get.

Obviously, you can just run in circles on those arguments.

Anyways, a (long) while back, my contribution to the argument was "if you are concerned about people hoarding all of the good equipment - which is the rare and magical stuff that has limited quantities - then just make everything non-magical save."

This was apparently ignored, or perhaps never truly heard, back then. Because when people were still arguing this subject and I said "I still think my proposed solution was a good idea..." a lot of people seemed to agree and never remembered hearing it before.

So... what prompted that last discussion? Well, newbie complaints. People who don't stay through the tutorial, or have difficulty going past it, or in various ways have a complaint about the eq they worked hard for is now just gone. They don't understand it, because other games don't work that way... so... we are different, and in their view, not in a good way. If they kept their stuff in the tutorial, but then stopped being able to keep it.... it would be misleading and a turn-off (or so I feel).

And yes, we could make tutorial items saving... and nothing else... but... why stop there? Why would we want to deprive people of equipment they worked for? Most of the arguments around keeping items non-saving, has to do with the limited quantity of special items. We don't want to take them away from other people in the game, and we want to keep those items 'special'. If you can get the 'super awesome cool item' EVERY time you fight monster/NPC X, its less special. If there are a limited quantity of them (by whichever means, absolute or practical) it makes them more special, and keeps some interest and excitement into the game. It provides one goal (and there can obviously be many other goals) for players to strive towards.

But, well, non-magical items are not regulated in this same fashion. They just arent... because, well, they arent magical.

If your claim is that "there are a bunch of really good non-magical helms and greaves and bracers and stuff! so why should people get to keep those!!" my answer is because, in theory, they could fight the monster/NPC owner of those items as often as they want to stockpile vast amounts of them anytime, and essentially insure themselves to have multiple saving sets anytime they want. They aren't limited, you can find them as often as you want already anyhow (unless there is some other restriction on them... and without speaking of specific items, we cant really talk details). So... why are we trying to deprive people?

Does it devalue the smiths guild? Mmm.... debatable, but not really in my opinion. My experience with various smiths is that it usually ends up being more about role-play than about the equipment forged.

I might say that if the best head/leg/arm/robe items in the game is all non-magical, then the wizard community (me included) should take a serious look at adding in some cool new head/leg/arm/robe items that are fun and magical. Don't use it as an excuse to deprive players of fun things to play with.

Varian

(The comments contained within this rant are purely the views of Varian, and do not reflect the views of Genesis administration in any way)

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Gronkas
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Gronkas » 09 Sep 2016 00:19

As a fairly new wizard who can still remember his time in Tutorial I think this is a really good idea.
Non-magical items should save. But they should not only save in the Tutorial. That would be just
another thing that would be different between the Tutorial and the real Donut.

- Gronkas

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Drazson
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Drazson » 15 Oct 2016 17:46

In general but especially as a smith I would like to be able to save the stuff I forge, I think it's absurd not being able to. Although, in order to dodge abuses, the number should be limited to something that is adventurer-like rather than smith-like, I guess. I liked an idea about non-magical wielded/worn items being saved.

A more appropriate/in-depth solution like "saving up to the maximum you can wield/wear of each type by just having them on you, no need to wield", making you just return to the game with the stuff a normal adventurer would be having on him since last time, could perplex things in cases of "which item not to save if the character carries 3 weapons on logout?" or "someone gave me 2 weapons before i logged out and didn't notice. now my good weapons god lost". Could be more practical but sounds more difficult to implement.

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Melarec
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by Melarec » 15 Oct 2016 20:05

Perhaps put a timer on it?
A character has to hold an item for ten minutes before it'll save?

ayre
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Re: Making non-magical items always save

Post by ayre » 16 Oct 2016 03:58

Speaking as a relatively new player, with limited knowledge of many aspects of Genesis, I think the change as originally outlined by Cherek is a good one. Especially if it will help to keep new players. The armour and weapons I normally use are readily obtainable by purchase or looting, but it is irritating to spend my limited playing time replacing them after Armageddon. This plan will also eliminate the frustration of having my armour/weapons stolen from my drop room, which has been one of my biggest issues in the game.


ayre

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