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Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 14 Apr 2011 16:38
by Cherek
Hiding imbuements is a terrible idea, I think only the very hardcore researchers like Booger and maybe Rhynox and possible a handful more would even bother about it if it worked that way.

The more user friendly the game is, the better. "Easy to learn, hard to master" is usually the best games imho.

Genesis is more like "hard to learn, easy to master"... which maybe isnt the best. But its becoming easier, which is a good thing I think.

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 13:51
by Booger
Cherek wrote:Hiding imbuements is a terrible idea
I assume you're also talking about my "suggestion" to force us to use the item in order to figure out whether it has any special powers, and what powers that might be. Please don't call it "hiding imbuements", as it's totally different from the "hidden imbuement" that this thread is suggesting.
And no need for more people to say that my "suggestion" would be bad to have implemented - I was just showing what the extreme other side would be (compared to the almost full visibility we have now). The immortals will NEVER implement that. I can guarantee it and promise it and I promise to quit the game if it happens, which it won't!

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 14:34
by Cherek
Booger: Yes that is what I meant. You actually said "one step at a time" or something which sounded worrying... Sounded like you wanted to suggest making it even harder in the future, which was what I was arguing against.

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 15:03
by Booger
Ahh, yes. There has been suggestions to make it even harder, like having to pick up the items to know if they are imbued, having to look at them, having some delay so you have to wait a number of seconds before the imbuement is being revealed,...
What I was trying to point out is that just about everyone wants to move from where we are now (imbuements are shown by just looking at the mob), to the next "hide-level" (imbuements are not visible until the mob has been killed).

Then you have a number of other steps, hiding the imbuements more and more, all the way up to the most extreme one (nothing is shown. You have to use the item to figure out if it has an imbuement).

But this vote is about hiding the imbuement only until the mob is dead. And as it looks, most people want that. So how about we work on that part first?
Later on, if people feel this is not enough, we can discuss and even vote on the possibility to hide imbuements even more.
Personally I'm satisfied with this first step and not interested in hiding it more. But for you people who want to make it more difficult, I'm suggesting to work on getting this first step done and then see how it works, before asking for the imbuements to be hidden more.

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 15:37
by Cherek
I dont think anyone wanted to make it more difficult. And this is not a step to make it more difficult if you ask me.

Its a step to make the usual grinding more interesting, like it was meant to be according to Gorboth. Imho this step makes it _easier_ for everyone casual players as hardcore, to find imbuements.

Leaving it as it is now would give those who can write scripts an advantage. Writing scripts is to me, and many others too I would imagine, a hard thing to do.

So I disagree, I think this change will make it easier. Now everyone can spot imbuements by just setting a simple "exa corpse;color trigger" when they kill something. And everyone have an equal chance of doing so.

Running around large areas examining NPCs sounds to me harder than just looking at what you killed. And knowing you have an equal chance as findning something, without the risk of some hardcore player has harvested the area already, is also a good thing I think.

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 18:06
by Booger
Compare "exa orc"
With "kill orc" <fightfightfight...>, <orc died>, "exa corpse"
Which one is easiest?

Compare "Running around large areas examining NPCs"
With "Running around large areas KILLING every npc and then examining their corpses"
Which one is easiest?

Hiding the imbuement will make it harder for everyone, even for people playing through raw telnet on a 1200-baud line, but the important thing here is that it will make it more _fair_, since we scripters will no longer be able to "Running around large areas examining NPCs".
Yes, it will give non-scripters a bigger chance to actually find imbuements, at least counting imbuements per mobs killed, and at least under certain circumstances, but "easier"... Well that's just semantics.

And yes. People DO want to make it more difficult. All the other options (having to examine the items, having to pick up the items first, having to wait a certain time) have been brought up by other people. Some in this thread and some in the other imbuement threads. The only thing I added was the extreme-hide that I didn't expect anyone to take seriously.

But all things aside. Can we just agree on the basics?
1: The hide that was originally suggested here, is that the "unusual" word is not seen on the item when looking at the mob, until after the mob has been killed.
2: This (the above statement, nr 1) is what people here have voted on.
3: The result of the vote is pretty clear - most people want this.
4: Any additional things (having to, pick up, examine or wait) are, at this time, uninteresting. And if people want that, it can be brought up in another thread, _after_ this change has been introduced and tested. (provided that this change will actually be introduced, which I assume).

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 18:22
by Uther
Killing the mob first. Then you see the unusual/peculiar/exotic name on the item if it has one.

The last suggested thing is not something I want. Killing is enough

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 18:51
by OgreToyBoy
Yarr, bring on the hidden imbuements. Scrap any kind of using or nspecting each item.
Mainly as I can't use most items and having to look on each item would be retarded.

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 20:03
by Cherek
Booger: I dont know who suggested making it harder, having to examine things, and wait a certain amount of time etc, hiding them completely to have to test every items, etc. I am just saying what I think. Ogretoyboy put it in a blunt way but I kind of agree by saying implementing any of those ideas would to me be terrible game design. And I dont think we need to wait to see how this change works to know that. Or have a vote. I am completely certain the majority of players would not want that at all so just drop it whoever thought of it.:)

But yes Booger, we agree this change is a good idea and it should be implemented.

And when I say easier I base that on the assumption that imbuements are here to make "boring" grinding a little bit more interesting like Gorboth said was the idea. So from a grinding point of view I think its easier imbuements show up on death since there would be no need check all the mobs in area first, and it would also make every kill a little more fun, since its a lottery every time something dies. You suggested another type of gameplay where you only hunt for imbuements that does not mean grinding at all.

In that case, yes, obviously it is "easier" to see it directly on the NPC... but really... that sounds to me like an extremely boring thing to do if you do not have scripts for it, and I dont think we should introduce more boring activities to the game than we have already.

Again, this is my opinion of what is "fun". I fully understand and respect others may have another idea of what is fun.

Re: Hidden Imbuement

Posted: 15 Apr 2011 20:23
by Alorrana
How many actually runs around scouting NPC for imbuments ? I know I dont, I kill what I kill, if there is an Imbument, I check it, if possible use it, and then rack it..

Just wondering.. Havnt seen anyone come in to any room where i fight mobs stand around and examine the foes.. and should it happen they attack some one in my room where im killing.. the mad cows tessto could easily be swinged in hes or her direction..

If you where to Hide the imbuments, do it so that they have the imbuments on them, in a pack or belt pack, pouches or what ever, suit the nps with packs, and belt packs, sacks, containers of all sort, then the Imbument would be in hes or her pack. people couldnt see them, and all would have to be equally lucky to get one.. or two.. Just my cents.. Hidden and still there.. Or if worn they could be under som raggy cloths..or would just show as an armour and perhaps upon npc death you should search armours on corpse.. or imbuement check corpse, then it would take a wee bit longer to go throug the corpse, but you make a sturdy investigation, and discover the imbuement...

works ?