Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

A place to discuss all the ins and outs of equipment in the Genesis Donut. Warning: Spoilers may be included. Only validated game players will see this forum.
Forum rules
- Use common sense and be respectful towards each other at all times, even when disagreeing.
- Do not reveal sensitive game information. Guild secrets, player seconds are examples of things not allowed.
User avatar
nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by nils » 22 May 2020 19:35

Considering recent changes to how equipment saves and the lack of discussions about the road ahead I'll attempt to start a debate.

The following issues are from a grinder's perspective and I'm not going to excuse that fact for a second.

While the difference between a dulling and an undulling weapon has decreased significantly, life without an undulling weapon is best characterized as.. bad-um-tsj.. dull! :lol:

The rate at which most weapons dull is ludicrous. I can go through a bloody skull club or a blackened whip in less than a day's worth of play. The constant visits to a smith aside, I still flock to the 'undulls' both for imbuements and lack of 'another concern' (breaking before worn out completely). Now, we've learned to accept that certain weapons, while rare and top tier, dulls like they were made of paper. However, one can only expect that new items will be seeded to the game in the future and this brings me to the reason for this note.

Dulling
The Genesis rumour mill dictates:
*The Arch of Balance "doesn't like" undulling weapons. I guess that's his prerogative, but -we do-.
*There is a rule saying undulling weapons aren't allowed/another undulling weapon will never be introduced to the game.

Considering the new mechanic of 5 days of combat regardless of an item's properties, it is time to discuss wether the AoB's -oppinions- in this regard needs adjustment and/or the 'rule' should be updated. Given that there's truth to said rumours, ofcourse.

With the new 5 day-system, one could even argue that all weapons should be made "undulling" to level out the playing field and enable us to enjoy our 'hard earned weapon' for little more than a days play.

'Epic' weapons skewed in swords' favour
This has been a pet-peeve of mine for a long time. Some weapons are more plentiful than others (yes, I'm poiting at swords). I know Zugzug had his complaints about polearms, and certain Neidars have voiced theirs regarding axes and I'll voice mine in regards to clubs. To put it plainly, there are no 'flaming black broadsword'-equivalents in the other weapon types, and this should be remedied. Now the encounters can be difficult in the way killing the nazgul is nigh impossible without proper preparations, but still doable.

Now imagine if you've spent hours preparing for the battle following a long wait for the opportune moment where all your friends who fullfill certain requirements are online and you barely succeed in aquiring said equivalent, but it dulled like it was made of paper - wouldn't that be... silly?

Imbuements
In the discussion regarding the 5-day rule, many ideas were tossed about, any updates on the following:
* "We might bring back ironstones"
* If you manually imbue an item, let's say an undulling one, can this lengthen it's time in combat to make up for the tremendous investment this actually is?

Now could, let's just take some arbitrary numbers (admin decides) and say: A faint imbue 2 extra days, pronounced 6 days and intense 12 days, be worth implementing? I'm not suggesting this should count for found imbues, only those made.

Cause reality right now is that making intense imbues, even on undulling items, is basically.. a waste.

Lastly,
Equipment spawn rates
The rumour mill hasn't said anything about adjustment of equipment spawn rates, but these last months have been depressing. You expect us to accept 'dulling is the way of life' without providing enough items to enable replenishment?

Now I have kept a rust-red mace from the beast in Raumdor in my pack since last I found one, as a back up. Thankfully, I've never had to use it, but it is the second best club in the game and I feel privileged to own one for all the following, wrong, reasons:
.. I've killed the beast daily, sometimes multiple times a day
.. I haven't seen one for sale in the auction house
.. I haven't seen anyone use one

Right now it's description says:
Judging by its age and how much it appears to have been used in combat you determine that it will last a minimum of 1 day and a maximum of 19 days before it succumbs to wear and tear.

That means it's 70+ days since I last saw one.. Something is avry. Can we discuss spawn rates?
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Thalric
Great Adventurer
Posts: 190
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by Thalric » 22 May 2020 19:48

How funny that this comes basically days after your primary damage dealer have been removed from his FBB.
It sounds like someone wants the OP to continue.
You have sledgehammers.. There is your non-dull super club.

User avatar
nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by nils » 22 May 2020 19:56

Thalric wrote:
22 May 2020 19:48
How funny that this comes basically days after your primary damage dealer have been removed from his FBB.
It sounds like someone wants the OP to continue.
You have sledgehammers.. There is your non-dull super club.
You misunderstand, I am his primary damage dealer considering he's the tank. Now stop derailing and contribute constructively instead.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1467
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by Amberlee » 22 May 2020 20:03

Nils is right here, partially atleast.
I think the non dulling part is actually favored by clubs and with knives at a huge disadvantage.
But yes spawn rates NEED to be addressed.
The same with ironstones and perhaps duration of intense imbuements.

4 days use in combat vs months to farm for an intense imbuement.
Just does not suffice.
You can say all you want about how good it is but the fact is that the duration of it's use does not make it worth doing at all.
Barely worth doing faint imbues tbh
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

User avatar
Zhar
Wizard
Posts: 903
Joined: 17 Apr 2012 12:09

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by Zhar » 22 May 2020 20:14

In my humble opinion all non-dulling and unbreakable equipment should be made dulling and breakable.

Non-dulling weapons are one of the primary reasons we are facing the current balance problems and so much flak from players being disheartened by never being able to catch up to the top. It's those items that allow people to grind around the clock that let the disease spread. I know it's too little too late anyway and if we'd remove no-dull/no-break properties from eq we'd just face more whining about people not being able to catch up to the top because now they can't grind any more.

Maybe instead we should just make all eq no-dull/no-break and permasave so people could grind out to their heart's content. Kind of like in regular MMO and some other MUDs, where if you find a piece of eq you can keep it forever.

The game would be super boring then, but who cares, right?
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.

User avatar
nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by nils » 22 May 2020 20:19

Amberlee wrote:
22 May 2020 20:03
Nils is right here, partially atleast.
I think the non dulling part is actually favored by clubs and with knives at a huge disadvantage.
I agree, the majority of the undulling weapons are clubs, but that property alone doesn't make them 'epic', and the clubs of in question are one-handed with one honourable exception - the sledgehammer. Even so, it is still not as good as a flaming black broadsword.

Knives are at an inherent disadvantage by their very nature. I'd like to see a two-handed knife.. Sounds much like a sword to me. Jokes aside, it's a game. Surely there should exist a flaming black broadsword-equivalent two-handed knife as well as a polearm, axe and club.

Hell, you want to get picky I'd say there should be an item that attributes whatever distribution neccessary to unarmed combat that equals said sword. Equal opportunity is good game design.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Amberlee
Myth
Posts: 1467
Joined: 08 Mar 2010 19:50
Location: Kristiansund, Norway

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by Amberlee » 22 May 2020 20:22

Equal opportunity is a good start yes.
One of the better weapons that ways is in fact the rusty-red weapons.
Random spawn between the major weapon groups, of course knife not counted.
To a degree same with corrupted mithril weapons, again no knives.

But that does not address the non dulling situation.
The views posted by me on this forum is not the views of the character Amberlee in-game.
If you ask for my opinion here, you will get MY opinion, not that of my character.

User avatar
nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by nils » 22 May 2020 20:26

Zhar wrote:
22 May 2020 20:14
In my humble opinion all non-dulling and unbreakable equipment should be made dulling and breakable.

Non-dulling weapons are one of the primary reasons we are facing the current balance problems and so much flak from players being disheartened by never being able to catch up to the top. It's those items that allow people to grind around the clock that let the disease spread. I know it's too little too late anyway and if we'd remove no-dull/no-break properties from eq we'd just face more whining about people not being able to catch up to the top because now they can't grind any more.

Maybe instead we should just make all eq no-dull/no-break and permasave so people could grind out to their heart's content. Kind of like in regular MMO and some other MUDs, where if you find a piece of eq you can keep it forever.

The game would be super boring then, but who cares, right?
Nobody likes stuff taken away. If stuff must be taken away, something should be added to fill the void left. And yes, that's one of my points - make everything 'undull' (it only lasts 5 days anyway, 'member?). Who are we to dictate what's fun and what's not?

I specifically don't think it's fun to kill 'mob x' ten times a day in hope to replenish my favourite weapon that I break within hours after getting it, unsuccessfully. Dunno about you though, but you do you.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Thalric
Great Adventurer
Posts: 190
Joined: 14 Jun 2016 16:34

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by Thalric » 22 May 2020 20:27

If the problem is smaller people catching up...

Make the really super and epic non-dull, damage bonus, whatever amazing weapons only be allowed to use up until a certain stat-avg...
Problem solved. The smaller ones can catch up, and the big ones have to use a ton of time on gearhunting.

How about magic-users... their damage doesn't rely in any weapons.
Perhaps they want some uber, epic damage increasing items as well. If melee people have it, so should casters.

User avatar
nils
Rising Hero
Posts: 324
Joined: 22 Jul 2016 17:13

Re: Dulling vs undulling weapons and more.

Post by nils » 22 May 2020 20:54

Thalric wrote:
22 May 2020 20:27
If the problem is smaller people catching up...

Make the really super and epic non-dull, damage bonus, whatever amazing weapons only be allowed to use up until a certain stat-avg...
Problem solved. The smaller ones can catch up, and the big ones have to use a ton of time on gearhunting.

How about magic-users... their damage doesn't rely in any weapons.
Perhaps they want some uber, epic damage increasing items as well. If melee people have it, so should casters.
I've written about 'catching up' before.
Here's how:
https://www.genesismud.org/forums/viewt ... =19&t=4029

It takes dedication, hard work, time. Not aid through equipment.

If anything needs adjusting in terms of growth it's the growth curve. I've written about that before too.
Lesser guilds deserve their suffering, you feel unjustly nerfed and want to be restored to your rightful glory... huh. I guess you're Genesis Hitler then. It feels so sweet to say this.. Fuck you, Hitler.
-Drazson, 21.07.2019

Post Reply
http://tworzymyatmosfere.pl/przescieradla-jedwabne-z-gumka/