Sword balance

A place to discuss all the ins and outs of equipment in the Genesis Donut. Warning: Spoilers may be included. Only validated game players will see this forum.
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Rhynox
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Rhynox » 16 Mar 2010 03:52

I believe your list is not fair. For example, you are mentioning Elrond and Tom swords and adding them as "wieldable" by good aligned guilds like the knights and rangers. However, they can't kill either NPC, and won't send people to kill them for those weapons. So, technically they can be included in the list of weapons but it is not as if a ranger just decides to get Elrond' sword. Just the same neither the rangers nor the knights would kill the nazgul for his sword (however, it is known that vampires and monks had little problem killing him).

It is similar to when the rose knight guards would boot with a scalemail. Yes, the scalemail is a very nice armour, and yes, it boots near the knight guild, but the knights won't kill their own guards for it, nor have someone contracted to get it. However, the DAs will kill Ariakas, Verminaard or auraks for their equipment based on the "evil feeds upon itself" motto.

One thing is which weapons exist, and another is which weapons you can objectively obtain. You know how hard was for us to go to Sanction and kill Ariakas. Knights won't raid the city unless in war. However, I have fought so many BDA using the life stealer sword!

And never go gladiator then, you would want to go back to the BDA. At least you have more than five or six weapons worth fighting for.

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petros
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Re: Sword balance

Post by petros » 16 Mar 2010 04:04

I think the list should have all references to guilds removed from it. This list should be a discussion about the items, not about their effects and limitations with certain guilds. One of the reasons I recommend not discussing other guilds is exactly this. People get all up in arms about it (though "up in arms" is perfect for a equipment forum) :lol:

Ilrahil

Re: Sword balance

Post by Ilrahil » 16 Mar 2010 04:41

Rhynox... I have witnessed Ranger's fighting the Nazgul before ;?) Just had to point that out :D

Rhynox
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Rhynox » 16 Mar 2010 04:47

Hehehehe, yeah, I know several try to kill time with him (archers mostly). But gone are the days when Eldior and Gorboth would take shifts (while one forged at the only forge the other would hunt rabbits and wolves to gather leathers, then they would switch places) to forge longswords, and then join some calians and knights to fight him.

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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 16 Mar 2010 13:11

I took out all the references to guilds for the particular swords.
Some damaging x guild more etc.

As for the example users.
Well that just spells out what is already obvious.
Good to see it from more than one perspective.

Tom's sword I am not sure it is still non dulling.
And Tom has been upped I think, SU used to own him and always have that sword.
Think you need a LOT of stunners now to get him. Plenty of weapon stuns out there.
So Rhynox with whip could probably easily grab it and give it to a nigget friend...

Also funny about the Tulwar, remember that sword from the Haradrims?
It was as damaging as a runnie, which seemed a little off because it was more common,
but I reported it to AoB because even the misses were doing damage.
Immediate response was to remove it. :(
Kinda makes you wish I had kept my mouth shut.

The situation was very bad at the long uptime introduction just after the bastardsword was "bug fixed" to dull
leaving BDA with no real non dulling options. When the likes of Barl was never seen without the azure sword.
Poet and co had the glistering, holy blade (before nerf) and sabre and SU had Tom's, and newbs had sting (piercing weapon only)

But that is all old ground and re-hashing it doesn't do much constructive now.
Things have moved on a bit, arguably the best sword is gigantic steel broadsword.
Big high five to Gont for being a neutral domain without any agendas.
See the sword in a calians hands as often as a BDA or merc.

Mergulas sword is back :)
The Emerald Orc Captain has quite a few swords :)

The mercs having fast skill switching, dual wielding and sword skill so that puts more pressure on the system.
A few months ago a certain merc asked a monk friend to store some equipment in the racks while he was away.
I was wondering why the hell we suddenly had about 10 or so uber swords sitting there.
I questioned people why we were hording stuff and found out about the friend.
Quite a poor situation, I stole a few and auctioned them, but left the majority sitting gathering dust.

Krynn and ME have a lot of bias compared to other areas.
There are many weapons in Krynn tailored to one of its guilds.
BDA doesn't have that really, just the firebrand sword close to them, but its not popular or massively powerful.
And the npc is very popular with everyone because of other items.

I hope we can go forward and re-examine swords and other equipment to find a more balanced situation.
I no longer use weapons.
But I still feel sad when someone is clearly loosing out.
Last edited by Tarax the Terrible on 16 Mar 2010 13:47, edited 5 times in total.
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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 16 Mar 2010 13:31

Rhynox wrote:I believe your list is not fair.
Agreed... Anyone can see its not fair. :twisted:

There was probably some inescapable bias when writing, but I tried hard to be impartial and factual.
So when you say "well Tarax you failed to take X into consideration (which is likely a fair point)"
Surely you cannot argue overall it is stacked up against most BDA?

By the way, I must say Neidar seem to be one of the best stocked guilds on the planet.
When I see a mithril spiked mace these days its usually in the hands of a Neidar.
Your knowledge is as good as the vamps was, you have weapons tailored to your guild, you have weapon choice etc etc
Dwarven war-maces, I am sure the Neidars would kill Colin to get one, I doubt Darkaan had many scruples.
Evil feed apon itself? True enough but heres a new one "Dwarves XP on the super gear."

So it may be hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone else but try this one for size...
Imagine the bloody skull club was non-dulling and could only be wielded by evil players, that the HSC was only good in the hands of a goblin.
That the crystal axe only appeared during an event at the gladiator guild so was likely never available to a Neidar. Then one day you kill a gladiator and try to wield it you find out that your particular guild is barred from it and no-one else.

Those sort of situations are what we are talking about here.
Last edited by Tarax the Terrible on 16 Mar 2010 13:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 16 Mar 2010 13:37

Ilrahil wrote:Rhynox... I have witnessed Ranger's fighting the Nazgul before ;?) Just had to point that out :D
Yeah not sure which monks Rhynox meant but the Nazgul would be the npc I personally fear most out of anything in the realms.
Think Kender/Militia had a lot of fun there. Circlings yeah sure.
Seen SU using the sword and Rangers etc never saw one in the BDA the years I was there.
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Tarax the Terrible
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Tarax the Terrible » 16 Mar 2010 13:46

petros wrote:I think the list should have all references to guilds removed from it. This list should be a discussion about the items, not about their effects and limitations with certain guilds.
Limitations be it race, align, guild etc is the most important issue in balance consideration surely??
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Rhynox
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Re: Sword balance

Post by Rhynox » 16 Mar 2010 14:39

Tarax the Terrible wrote:By the way, I must say Neidar seem to be one of the best stocked guilds on the planet.
Hehehe, could be, but just because I became active again :) Nah, it helps that equipment hoarders (Poet, Freya, Ilrahil, Xar) are not around. If they were around I would not be able to fetch as many items as I do.
Tarax the Terrible wrote:When I see a mithril spiked mace these days its usually in the hands of a Neidar.
Thanks that no SU is around. I was lucky two Armies back that I got all seven copies and six saved :D However, the mace itself is only useful for pfighting, there are very few NPCs that are affected. And I would easily switch every copy of the mace we have for a bloody skull club!
Tarax the Terrible wrote:Your knowledge is as good as the vamps was, you have weapons tailored to your guild, you have weapon choice etc etc
Dwarven war-maces, I am sure the Neidars would kill Colin to get one, I doubt Darkaan had many scruples.
Evil feed apon itself? True enough but heres a new one "Dwarves XP on the super gear."
However, I am lazy. I don't like running for hours trying to find equipment. I usually left Darkaan, Tor and Irk do all that stuff, but since they are not around I am forced to do that for small members like Mega to enjoy the game. Also, since we don't have active mariners we cannot get the items from Bloodsea, namely the shells, greaves and amulets, so we are stuck with tempered shields.

The dwarven war-mace is nice, but gives haste which is a waste for dwarves, it makes you get tired faster, and drops your defense. It doesn't even have its old leg hurting special (although Shale can use it, not sure if Colin can do it too, since we don't fight him). I remember Icarus would go kill Colin to donate his mace and shield, but we told him not to do that and he stopped (in fact he started defending the place, including a glorious battle against three huge legend/myth RDA where he made them wimp one at the time as rising hero by spending most of his herbs, after that the herb system was changed and the mercenaries downgraded). I have never killed him, and I don't think neidars would fight him either. Besides, it is not as if we check on him often, in fact I guess an ogre would be able to fetch a copy more often than us. Colin isn't besides our guild.
Tarax the Terrible wrote:So it may be hard to put yourself in the shoes of someone else but try this one for size...
Imagine the bloody skull club was non-dulling and could only be wielded by evil players, that the HSC was only good in the hands of a goblin.
That the crystal axe only appeared during an event at the gladiator guild so was likely never available to a Neidar. Then one day you kill a gladiator and try to wield it you find out that your particular guild is barred from it and no-one else.

Those sort of situations are what we are talking about here.
I always try to. I think it has to do with the fact that certain weapons are tailored for certain guilds, and there is no complain strong enough to have it changed. So, you need similar items tailored for your guild, race or alignment, however such items usually take a long time to be implemented. I am still waiting for the new axes to appear (the latest axes added to the game, from what I remember, were the ones in Palanthas, which I had never obtained and that gladiators appear to control).

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Re: Sword balance

Post by Amberlee » 16 Mar 2010 15:18

Give a weapon tailored to drow :O
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