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Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
Posts: 2281
Location: Some old coffin
Hi everyone,

I wanted to share with you some information I've gotten from Zuggsoft's Admin about the cost of paying for a default icon for Genesis in their startup window. I had contacted them a few years back about this, and learned that they have a once-per-year bidding period in which the highest bidders get the top positions. The minimum bid back then was $1,000 which, at the time, caused me to drop the idea. Now, we have some money, but we must use it wisely.

I wrote Zuggsoft again and got the following updated information:

Zuggsoft Admin wrote:
Well, the bad news is that you missed the bidding period again. The bidding always happens during the month of February.

The good news is that this year I started relaxing the entire bidding and icon process. I no longer limit the number of startup icons within CMUD and while the bidding is still used to determine the order of the icons (and who gets the top slot), I have started allowing *any* MUD that bids the minimum of $1000 for the year to get an icon near the bottom.

So, if you are still interested, I could pro-rate this by the number of months left in the year. Running the icon from June until February 2012 would be 8 months, so 8/12 * $1000 = $667. Then in February you will be automatically on the email list to participate in the bidding where you can either bid more for a higher slot, or just stick with the $1000 min bid.

If you are interested in this, let me know and we can work out details for the payment, icon image, etc.

I'd be interested in hearing what people think of the value of this option. Obviously, we would be likely to get a few people peeking in since we would be one of the relatively few muds that have a primary default icon in CMUD. The problems I see are:

  • We would not have a very visible slot in this select group (near the bottom)
  • Only people who update their CMUD or are fist time new buyers would see this ... I think?
  • We would lose this icon next February and have to pay at least another $1,000 to renew per year
  • This gives us visibility ONLY with people who already know about muds and own CMUD. People who have never heard of a mud before ... it doesn't help find them at all.


Mmmmmm ... pie ...

09 Jun 2011 20:27
I believe it auto updates with the new patches for CMUD as well. Plus depending on your settings mine shows 10 MUD Icons out of 11 not counting all the ones I personally have added to the list so even if I were to barely click the scroll down I would be able to see the last spot. My Cmud is a bit outdated though so that could have changed.

Problem is this since Zugg only gives you a subscription for people like me who don't find the newer updates worth paying another 30$ for I have no reason to update my Cmud therefore I wont be able to see the new MUD Icons and I think it's that way with alot of people. You also need to factor in that alot of people don't buy Cmud anymore they use cracked versions of the Mud which can be a good thing IF a cracked version of the new updated software is available.

09 Jun 2011 21:23
I don't think its worth the money.

I figure that most people who own CMUD, are already hooked enough on some other game, and are not very likely to try something new. I know that I won't ever be playing any other MUD than Genesis, and even that is low these days.

1000$ is also an awfully lot of money, which I believe can be spent a million other ways where there are better chance of attracting someone to the game.

09 Jun 2011 22:33

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 00:36
Posts: 595
I think you can probably get alot of exposure for a 1000$ through other channels, that would be a lot better than an icon on a MUD client that only last 1 year.

So I don't think it's worth it.

Hell, I'd even suggest you try and find some (student/fan/enthusiast) programmer, and give that person a 1000$ to program us a useful client instead!

Mortimor Makfly - Gnomish Xeno-Anthropologist

09 Jun 2011 22:34
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
Posts: 1331
Location: UK
It depends... And with a limited budget we have to plan wisely, just as you are doing. :D

Before we did anything like buy an icon we would want all our other ducks in a row.
EG at the very least CMUD settings file, for color triggers and other basic aliases etc and a pretty complete map that follows you or your team leader.

I am not sure how effective those icons are, I use zMud still and it has the icons. In all the years I think I have clicked on a few of them once.

Genesis was the first mud I played.
The only other ones I tried for more than a few minutes are these.

Realms of Despair.
Maybe found this as a zMud Icon can't remember. What initially attracted me was the ANSI colours and totally different style. The immediately chooseable classes versus guilds and everything had a number on it, fast levelling etc. But then after the novelty wore off those put me off compared to gen. The easiness of it all I mean.

Wheel Of Time Mud
Checked this out after reading the books. If you haven't already I would suggest you do, to know the competition better. Its officially "endorsed" by the author big draw, like a stamp of approval. Different style again, quite easy to get into. But the 100% complete zMud Map of the world are what made me stay there for a bit of fun.

Lasty was Elephant Mud a UK one I played a bit because others in the university lab were playing it.

Also where is the best place to get new players.
New to muds or existing mudders.

This is obviously aimed at pulling in more existing mudders.
con - Obviously not everyone has CMud.
pro - Those who have it are pretty comitted players.

I guess for getting other existing mudders apart from having a great game (score we have that down) we need to find a way to make ourselves stand out enough that we are worth a try.

You look at a mud list and nothing really jumps off the page at you.
We tried the voting up in the past and got to number one on many.

If we could write the next vampire versus werwolf app for facebook that takes off and have a
" want to play more log on today at genesis mud! " ad on there.
CCall it
"Calian Warriors versus the Mages"
(don't want to get sued)
"Shadow Union versus Spirit Circle"
Something the re-enacts a war from the game (but not using copyright names)
A place to showcase some of the lore from the game.

Its a mud like game, you just pick someone and attack them on the web then get a little mud like fight scene. Free then they try and up sell to get you to buy extra attacks per hour or equipment.
What that does well is blend web stuff with the game mechanics.

I think an app like that which was totally free, you like this stuff why not try our other totally free game might be revolutionary by todays money grabbing standards.

Join up and help each other with Quests :)

09 Jun 2011 22:43
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Joined: 09 Mar 2010 20:33
Posts: 1331
Location: UK
Kudos on approaching them in the 1st place btw.
Nice thinking

Join up and help each other with Quests :)

09 Jun 2011 22:51
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010 04:46
Posts: 627
Location: United Kingdom
I have to agree with everyone else.. I think there are better uses for the money than that icon. (Just jumping on the bandwagon so to speak.. but felt I'd throw more weight behind that opinion). Perhaps a vote poll?


If something I wrote sounds confusing ... assume you misunderstood it.

10 Jun 2011 14:46

Joined: 21 Jun 2010 15:47
Posts: 205
I think banner on will be more effective

11 Jun 2011 11:00
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Joined: 13 May 2010 06:22
Posts: 960
$1000 is quite a bit of money that could be spent in other areas (like others already mentioned).
I've never ever used any paid software to connect to a MUD (tried cracked Zmud once back in the day but I didn't like it) and I think there's quite a lot of people with the same mindset, especially those who use Linux as their primary OS, I guess that OSX users are accustomed to paying for stuff.

Things to consider when spending cash on advertisement:

1. Banners at gaming community and RPG sites (reddit perhaps? There's a lot of freaks there, even 86 year old people who play FPS games).
2. Finally our own client. I've recently discovered that TF can be changed to use Python as primary scripting language. Perhaps it's worth investigating?
3. Givaways to make people try the game. Perhaps some of them would stick around after trying the game for a while.
Example of my failed (for now) attempt: ... _id=283389

I fear no evil for I am fear incarnate.

08 Nov 2011 03:09
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010 20:51
Posts: 2281
Location: Some old coffin
I really like what you tried, Rhaegar. Thanks for that idea!


Mmmmmm ... pie ...

11 Nov 2011 19:23
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